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Old 11-20-2013, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,178 posts, read 3,877,057 times
Reputation: 2550

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
They did that because PAY WAS CONTROLLED and benefits were not.
I presume that by "controlled" you mean "taxed" ...
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:52 PM
 
25,631 posts, read 30,261,857 times
Reputation: 23111
While I disagree with their decision, I agree with them exercising their States Rights.

Land of my beloved syrup has gone full commie.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,612 posts, read 14,109,896 times
Reputation: 15767
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
The hospital that charges $41K is going to use its profit to build their brand to kill or acquire the competition that charges $26K, even though both perform the same procedure.
And that's the really sick thing.

Hospitals are quite corporate, but even that would be an insult to corporations.

And the branding? Now that I think about it, sure, they are. Branding isn't free. They spend $Millions crafting their logo and designs for their "brand" and then advertising to a more or less captive audience.

Oh, and it's "healthcare lines" now.

It's attractively packaged and slickly marketed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
In some cases, they will feed the highest risk patients to the lower cost provider and do so to maintain a perception that they get better outcomes. Sooner or later, the cheaper place will fold or be acquired by the more costly hospital which becomes the only game in town and enables them to increase the fee to $50K.
Sure, but they even do that "in-Cartel" to coin a phrase.

Those prices are real, and they are from hospitals in the same monopolistic Cartel: Trihealth. This is the propaganda they spew....

".....serves Greater Cincinnati as a unified health system of physicians, hospitals and communities."

I guess that's the Orwellian way of saying, "We have a monopoly that reigns over you suckers."

Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Health care costs are cheaper in the rest of the developed world for two primary reasons:

Healthcare lobbies do not own state and federal government, and
Government imposes itself into pricing
That's not completely true, since their method of healthcare delivery is very different. In the US for oncology, you go to an hospital, but in Europe (excluding the idiots in the UK) you go to an oncology clinic. The only thing there is oncology. For orthopedics, you don't go to an hospital, you go to a clinic. In Germany especially, you'd go to a poli-clinic, where orthopedics and neurology are together, since they are closely related, and you'd probably even see you ortho and neurology specialists together as a team at your appointment.

The governments play no role in that, although you could say Germany was especially supportive of the poli-clinics (which they actually inherited from the East Germans).


And while many governments do impose themselves in pricing, there is a penalty to pay for that....

In order not to trigger penalty payments, the KBV devised an Emergency Programme which would, in effect, ration drug prescribing for the rest of the year.

The Emergency Programme proposed five steps:
1. Waiting lists for prescription drugs and other prescription treatments (Heilmittel, which include physiotherapy, acupuncture etc.) except in life threatening or medically essential circumstances
2. Postponement of innovative therapy to the following budget year
3. Radical switching of prescriptions from brand to the cheapest generic
4. Prior authorisation of expensive therapies
5. In the event of budget being exceeded, ‘emergency prescriptions’ to be issued temporarily, for which patients would have to pay out-of pocket and personally claim reimbursement (in Germany, unlike France, patients pay only user charges out of pocket)


Source: Why Ration Healthcare? Page 86

Americas whine now about having to get approval for therapies.....they'll love seeking approval from a big bureaucracy.

Corporately....

Mircea
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:08 PM
 
34,208 posts, read 41,163,630 times
Reputation: 29657
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
"massive government intervention to get itself out of the way".

Huh?
If you think big government needs to get out of the way whats your plan for accomplishing that goal ?
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:20 PM
 
9,473 posts, read 5,871,029 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
At least they are approaching this in a much more rational manner than Congress. If the people of a given State truly want socialized health care, then this is the correct approach to achieving that goal. Personally, I would never live in such a State, but I fully acknowledge the right of the State legislature to create whatever social programs they deem necessary.
Yup. States are where you carry this stuff out, and people vote with their feet.

When the moochers rush in and the workers rush out, you know you done got stupid.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,054 posts, read 29,367,930 times
Reputation: 7829
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
Yup. States are where you carry this stuff out, and people vote with their feet.

When the moochers rush in and the workers rush out, you know you done got stupid.
Yet somehow I think Vermont will be fine.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
2,867 posts, read 2,969,254 times
Reputation: 3981
Nonsense. Vermont winters are not that bad.

All relative. You're in Alaska. I've lived there (Kodiak Is, Anchorage). Campared to the lower third of the lower 48 Vermont winters, especially in the NEK, ARE extreme. Have heard numerous southerners when I lived down there exclaim that one of the main reasons they would not move up north was due to the cold. Anyway I am just watching this to see how the legislators and others plan to implement and fund it. Have a son and other relatives still living in Vermont. It truly will be a test case on a small scale to see how things pan out.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:31 PM
 
9,473 posts, read 5,871,029 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post

This is incorrect.
1. removing the middleman (ie insurance companies) saves money, witness the link here about the lowest increase in many years, and given that the overhead in the billing and profit of the insurance companies is estimated at 25% currently, and we now limit it to 20%, and later 15% I believe, I would argue that you should know better.
True insurance is NOT a "middle man". It is paid to carry the risk of catastrophic expenses. When you turn insurance into a bill paying service, then you have a point. Now, it was government that has done that, and Obamacare makes it into a giant cost averaging pool - which is even less intelligent than what we had before.


Quote:
You are so wrong here its not even funny. There ARE a lot of things in the ACA that have the effect of lowering the cost of healthcare. This may surprise you since they are very rarely talked about. A good example is that there are now some incentives in place to avoid seeing a patient once a week to take their blood pressure. Before the more visits=more money...even if the prtext of the Dr's visit was extremely thin.
Which is why the PATIENT should be paying the bill. If the patient finds no value in constant visits for mere blood pressure testing, when a $40 machine from WalMart will serve, that's what they'll do - it's called rationalizing expenditure vs value, something we all do to great benefit at the grocery store, clothing store, car dealer, etc, etc.

Quote:
Theres stuff about electronic records. All sorts of stuff. That most people agree on. And no, Im not equivocating, im being pretty clear. I even tend to use simple words for people here in order to be more clear and concise. You should try it.
None of this reduces costs. They INCREASE it.


Quote:
Comparing home owners insurance to this is so stupid it IS funny. (BTW generally calling people stupid, and then proceeding to compare apples to oranges is not the best choice).
No, actually, the comparison was not just valid, but strikingly accurate.


Quote:
In a way it IS like fire insurance. If your house catches on fire (you get sick) the fire dept comes out and fights it. And fire depts are ran by communities generally. Hmmmm.
You're apparently unaware that many are not.


Quote:
briefly-I don't have a employer based plan, I work as a tech based contract worker, I AM the consumer. trying to separate the definitions is foolish. No its not my employer refusing to pay, it is the insurance company. Saying otherwise is just a distraction from the topic at hand.
It doesn't serve your politics, so, yes, you wish to dismiss it.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:32 PM
 
9,473 posts, read 5,871,029 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
All media has been reporting that 25% of U.S. citizens and documented workers in Texas are uninsured.
And what the media reports, if it has political impact, is rarely true.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:33 PM
 
9,473 posts, read 5,871,029 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
This thread is about universal healthcare, not food, housing and transportation.
No, this thread is also about the validity of the logic that profit must be removed in order to afford necessities.
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