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Old 11-24-2013, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,247,059 times
Reputation: 3949

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
We The People, declared the rights given to us all, by our creator.
Which is, on its face, stupid. If they were god given, our "declaration" one way or the other is superfluous and gratuitous.

If, on the other hand, our "declaration" was necessary to securing the right, then god had nothing to do with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
Specifically, the right to protect ourselves as individuals, against all forms of oppression.
Too bad that our rights "as individuals" conflict with the rights of other "individuals." That is why we had to invent morality and then try to codify that morality in the form of law.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:56 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
61,978 posts, read 31,350,374 times
Reputation: 13173
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Which is, on its face, stupid. If they were god given, our "declaration" one way or the other is superfluous and gratuitous.

If, on the other hand, our "declaration" was necessary to securing the right, then god had nothing to do with it.


Too bad that our rights "as individuals" conflict with the rights of other "individuals." That is why we had to invent morality and then try to codify that morality in the form of law.


Where in the Constitution, does it say that the US Government has any right, to legislate morality?
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:02 AM
 
2,836 posts, read 3,026,052 times
Reputation: 1399
Our rights are defined by law; which under the Constitution is the province of the Congress, and such other legislative bodies as guaranteed the several states under Article IV, Section 4. In this, there are no imprescriptible rights - no God-given rights, no natural rights, no unalienable rights - there are only legal rights; rights provided and protected by law.
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:05 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
61,978 posts, read 31,350,374 times
Reputation: 13173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell Phillips View Post
Our rights are defined by law; which under the Constitution is the province of the Congress, and such other legislative bodies as guaranteed the several states under Article IV, Section 4. In this, there are no imprescriptible rights - no God-given rights, no natural rights, no unalienable rights - there are only legal rights; rights provided and protected by law.


....and the US Constitution are not the chains placed on the people, they are the chains We the People, placed on Government. All Government.
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,247,059 times
Reputation: 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Where in the Constitution, does it say that the US Government has any right, to legislate morality?
It doesn't. Why would it?
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:08 AM
 
2,836 posts, read 3,026,052 times
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No. There are no absolute rights. There is one "absolute privilege" by law; but not one absolute right. Our rights are limited by law; which is not made by "We the People" but by our elected representatives in government.
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,247,059 times
Reputation: 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
....and the US Constitution are not the chains placed on the people, they are the chains We the People, placed on Government. All Government.
Those are not mutually exclusive.
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:32 AM
 
11,473 posts, read 5,647,370 times
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Wouldn't an individual residing in, or even visiting, Washington, D.C. have more constitutional rights than an individual residing in or visiting Chicago?
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Old 11-24-2013, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,427 posts, read 5,581,058 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Which is, on its face, stupid. If they were god given, our "declaration" one way or the other is superfluous and gratuitous.

If, on the other hand, our "declaration" was necessary to securing the right, then god had nothing to do with it.


Too bad that our rights "as individuals" conflict with the rights of other "individuals." That is why we had to invent morality and then try to codify that morality in the form of law.
No they don't, the rights of others are not more important then my rights.

Morality which is based on emotions and opinions is subjective, Logic and Reason are not.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:03 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
19,760 posts, read 13,284,318 times
Reputation: 14453
Since the Constitution is a living document that is constantly interpreted by the Supreme Court to align with our ever changing society, it is probable that the Framers never envisioned an America of the 21st century.

They could not have envisioned repeating weapons, the complete mechanization of weapons manufacture, or how easy it has become to obtain a firearm today.

And since the population of the nation was only 3.24 million people spread thinly up and down the east coast, they could not have confidently foreseen a time when the United States stretched the width of the continent. As far as they knew, half of the U.S. would remain Spanish forever, except for the parts the French had carved out and where the colonists still hung with the British.

But they were wise enough to had the Constitution over to the Supreme Court to accommodate the future needs and changes of our society. That is a large reason why our first Constitution has remained our only Constitution to this day. Ours is the only first draft that still survives as a founding document in all the democracies in the world. Every single other Constitution has been re-written at least once.

Those who take all the words literally for everything concerning governance is believing the Constitution is a dead document now, just as Latin is a dead language. Latin is still being taught and is still spoken, but increasingly less so as it fails to have words that pertain to modern life, and has to resort to the use of a living language's substitutions to accommodate the fact.

Our Constitution is not dead yet, and as long as we continue to use a Supreme Court, they, not us, are the arbiters of what's constitutional or not by law. It does not matter what we agree with or not in their rulings. They alone decide the law based on the Constitution, and they alone interpret questions of Constitutionality.

We are free to disagree with the Court, but disagreeing means nothing unless the Constitution is changed to suit us by legal means, and the document provides for those means.
Since none of us are on the court, no one's opinions count for doodley squat unless they are able to successfully initiate a change. That requires getting off butts and turning off the computers, something all of us here don't do often enough.
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