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Old 11-26-2007, 07:54 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,464,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
They will hold a party serving only the most expencive of foods to talk about how they dont have enough money to feed the starving people in africa.
That's called investment, not hypocrisy. If the extra $5,000 for food draws the people you need in order to get $50 million in pledges instead of $30 million...well, you do the math.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
8,323 posts, read 15,164,623 times
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Ok, I have to add my input here. After laughing at my desk for the past five minutes, I have decided that all the leaders who want to attend a climate conference have to either bike or row a boat - or a combination of the two.

But that would be demeaning, wouldn't it?
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:06 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,862,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
The real humor arises from those who believe that standing still in the same spot for the rest of their lives is the only appropriate option for those who believe that global warming is an important problem. Anything else is an example of hypocrisy on their part. What a Beavis & Butthead sort of comic commentary that is...
Problem seems to be a lack of a solution that is guaranteed to work to stop the globe from warming.

What is your solution?
How will stop or reverse global warming?
Is it guaranteed to succeed?
Will it be implemented in every nation on earth?

Thanks.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:10 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,862,853 times
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I believe some think being 'concerned about global warming' is about as good as doing something.

The left often equates 'caring about issues' or 'doing something'(even when detrimental) with success.

Afterall,it is the thought that counts.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:22 AM
 
6,762 posts, read 11,625,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Problem seems to be a lack of a solution that is guaranteed to work to stop the globe from warming.

What is your solution?
How will stop or reverse global warming?
Is it guaranteed to succeed?
Will it be implemented in every nation on earth?

Thanks.
Thre is no sure solutions. Only speculative solutions.

On another note, as I drove home after the Thanksgiving holidays we had to watch the forecast to make sure the ice and snow would not make it down to I-30 and I-40. I thought about how long it had been since that was a concern for me in November travel. It made me think about how insane it is to think global warming is 100% horrible. Cold weather is a much bigger killer than hot weather. It also cripples travel and infrastructure and a colder global climate means shorter growing seasons and less food production. It is insane that global warming is being advertised as a deadly monster that will destroy all humans.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:29 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,862,853 times
Reputation: 2519
You mean people want us to do 'something' even though it hasn't been proven to reverse global warming?
WHY would that be????????

And by the way,unseasonably cold weather is caused by global warming.
As is hot weather.
And mild weather.

I believe early hair loss is also caused by global warming.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,320,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
You mean people want us to do 'something' even though it hasn't been proven to reverse global warming?
WHY would that be????????

And by the way,unseasonably cold weather is caused by global warming.
As is hot weather.
And mild weather.

I believe early hair loss is also caused by global warming.
Don't forget E.D. That motivation doubtless figures prominently on this board.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:08 AM
 
1,573 posts, read 4,062,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
It made me think about how insane it is to think global warming is 100% horrible. Cold weather is a much bigger killer than hot weather. It also cripples travel and infrastructure and a colder global climate means shorter growing seasons and less food production. It is insane that global warming is being advertised as a deadly monster that will destroy all humans.
The problem with global warming isn't the heat, it is the effects of that extra heat. More severe weather, more humidity and rainfall in some places, more droughts in others. It will make the weather more extreme and less temperate. The worlds wind and ocean currents are a big heat engine, after all. A hurricane or tornado is a good example of the trapped energy in the atmosphere and oceans being redistributed in a violent manner.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:34 AM
 
6,762 posts, read 11,625,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnulus View Post
The problem with global warming isn't the heat, it is the effects of that extra heat. More severe weather, more humidity and rainfall in some places, more droughts in others. It will make the weather more extreme and less temperate. The worlds wind and ocean currents are a big heat engine, after all. A hurricane or tornado is a good example of the trapped energy in the atmosphere and oceans being redistributed in a violent manner.
Compare Europe in the medieval warm period to Europe in the little ice age. I'll take a repeat of the medieval warm period. I'm also still waiting for the ice in Greenland to recede back to the levels it was at when the Vikings inhabited the land and flourished.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,320,493 times
Reputation: 15291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnulus View Post
The problem with global warming isn't the heat, it is the effects of that extra heat. More severe weather, more humidity and rainfall in some places, more droughts in others. It will make the weather more extreme and less temperate. The worlds wind and ocean currents are a big heat engine, after all. A hurricane or tornado is a good example of the trapped energy in the atmosphere and oceans being redistributed in a violent manner.
Actually, global warming's positive effects may outweigh its negatives....

Global Warming, the Great Lifesaver

Bjorn Lomborg says balmier weather could ward off millions of deaths.

Yes, Bjorn Lomborg, the controversial Danish economist, believes that "global warming is real and man-made." But he is convinced that we are not thinking the problem through correctly and are, in fact, lost in a kind of green fog about how best to deal with global warming and other major environmental threats. In this excerpt from his new book, Cool It, Lomborg illustrates how a major climate-related killer goes underreported, while human deaths from heat waves make front-page news.

The heat wave in Europe in early August 2003 was a catastrophe of heartbreaking proportions. With more than 3,500 dead in Paris alone, France suffered nearly 15,000 fatalities from the heat wave. Another 7,000 died in Germany, 8,000 in Spain and Italy, and 2,000 in the United Kingdom: The total death toll ran to more than 35,000. Understandably, this event has become a psychologically powerful metaphor for the frightening vision of a warmer future and our immediate need to prevent it.

The green group Earth Policy Institute, which first totaled the deaths, tells us that as "awareness of the scale of this tragedy spreads, it is likely to generate pressure to reduce carbon emissions. For many of the millions who suffered through these record heat waves and the relatives of the tens of thousands who died, cutting carbon emissions is becoming a pressing personal issue."

While 35,000 dead is a terrifyingly large number, all deaths should in principle be treated with equal concern. Yet this is not happening. When 2,000 people died from heat in the United Kingdom, it produced a public outcry that is still heard. However, the BBC recently ran a very quiet story telling us that deaths caused by cold weather in England and Wales for the past years have hovered around 25,000 each winter, casually adding that the winters of 1998-2000 saw about 47,000 cold deaths each year. The story then goes on to discuss how the government should make the cost of winter fuel economically bearable and how the majority of deaths are caused by strokes and heart attacks.

It is remarkable that a single heat-death episode of 35,000 from many countries can get everyone up in arms, whereas cold deaths of 25,000 to 50,000 a year in just a single country pass almost unnoticed. Of course, we want to help avoid another 2,000 dying from heat in the United Kingdom. But presumably we also want to avoid many more dying from cold.

For Europe as a whole, about 200,000 people die from excess heat each year. However, about 1.5 million Europeans die annually from excess cold. That is more than seven times the total number of heat deaths. Just in the past decade, Europe has lost about 15 million people to the cold, more than 400 times the iconic heat deaths from 2003. That we so easily neglect these deaths and so easily embrace those caused by global warming tells us of a breakdown in our sense of proportion.

How will heat and cold deaths change over the coming century with global warming? Let us for the moment assume-very unrealistically-that we will not adapt at all to the future heat. Still, the biggest cross-European cold/heat study concludes that for an increase of 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit in the average European temperatures, "our data suggest that any increases in mortality due to increased temperatures would be outweighed by much larger short-term declines in cold-related mortalities." For Britain, it is estimated a 3.6°F increase will mean 2,000 more heat deaths but 20,000 fewer cold deaths. Likewise, another paper incorporating all studies on this issue and applying them to a broad variety of settings in both developed and developing countries found that "global warming may cause a decrease in mortality rates, especially of cardiovascular diseases."

But of course, it seems very unrealistic and conservative to assume that we will not adapt to rising temperatures throughout the 21st century. Several recent studies have looked at adaptation in up to 28 of the biggest cities in the United States. Take Philadelphia. The optimal temperature seems to be about 80°F. In the 1960s, on days when it got significantly hotter than that (about 100°F), the death rate increased sharply. Likewise, when the temperature dropped below freezing, deaths increased sharply.

Yet something great happened in the decades following. Death rates in Philadelphia and around the country dropped in general because of better health care. But crucially, temperatures of 100°F today cause almost no excess deaths. However, people still die more because of cold weather. One of the main reasons for the lower heat susceptibility is most likely increased access to air-conditioning. Studies seem to indicate that over time and with sufficient resources, we actually learn to adapt to higher temperatures. Consequently we will experience fewer heat deaths even when temperatures rise.


from Discover, Aug. 31 2007 (public domain)
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