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I think it is relevant. The United States has lagged behind many 1st world nations as far as Scientific advancements. Its not a stretch to think a key reason that has occurred is the refusal for many to believe the very basic of Scientific concepts.
Of course it's relevant. When we study forensic science, paleontology and geology, we have to keep facts in mind, rather than pretend that God is tricking us by making things look old, or that Satan is seeding the earth with fossils to confound us and test our faith.
Sounds like a convenient cop-out for someone who can't decide on a real answer.
You teach HS science, right?
The realization that the answer isn't needed to move on is not a cop out. The problem is I was asking the wrong question. The question I needed to ask was whether anything changes if the world is 6000 years old or 60 billion years old and the answer is it doesn't. If the answer doesn't change anything, it's irrelevant. The fact is, either way, you and I are here having this conversation. How we got here does not change that. Where we are is a state function. It's not path dependent.
And yes, I teach high school science. I recognize an irrelevant question when I see one. Sometimes you need an answer to move on. Sometimes you don't. In this case you don't. If the earth is 6000 years old, then God created it in mature form with mature species in a mature universe. If it is billions of years old, then it is in mature form, with mature species in a mature universe. We're in the same place either way so how we got here doesn't matter. Either way the study of science is the study of the scientific laws of this universe and we can trust that things are identical either way so it doesn't matter.
Given the nature of God, I don't think this question ever will be answered by man. To insist that the world must look as if it were only 6000 years old if that is how old it is (I really don't care) is to tell God what he can and cannot do. If you read the story of creation you'll find God created trees not seeds that grew into trees but trees...the mature form....and man, not an embryo or a baby but man....the mature form....why not a mature world in a mature universe?...However many years it took. However, I should note that the 7 day creation account appears to have been added to the bible a couple of centuries after the first account and given its resemblance to the creation account in the Enuma Elish (sp? it's been a long time since I did a literary interpretation of Genesis), I take it with a grain of salt. The earlier creation account simply says that God created and gives no details.
IMHO, God created is enough. If someone wants to believe he created everything in a blink, that's their belief and I really can't counter it nor do I want to. I don't care if he did or he didn't as I do not see how it makes one iota difference in the big scheme of things. As a scientist, I accept that the universe appears to be billions of years old and study it accordingly. However, I don't place limits on God. If he created it in a blink and it just looks old, so beit. It changes nothing.
I don't know how old the earth is and I don't care how old the earth is, however, I believe it is within the realm of possibilities that God created mature species, on a mature world in a mature universe and that all is as it would have been had it taken billions of years to have happened but it could have happened in the blink of an eye. I don't believe God has to play by the rules. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I don't really care because IMO it changes nothing. I really don't care whether the creator of this universe set in motion a process that led to us over millennia or simply poofed us into existence in the blink of an eye. The end result is the same.
While I believe the bible, I think the bible often speaks in parables. Hence I don't know if the story of creation is meant to be taken literally or is simply there as a teaching tool. Fortunately, I've decided it doesn't matter so I'm not stuck here. There was a time when I thought not believing the world was 6000 years old meant none of the bible could be believed. I have since come to the conclusion that one can believe the big picture of the bible without every detail having to be precise. In other words, "God created" is enough and the story is taken for the value of its teaching rather than the end all be all.
But this isn't all about you. This is about the majority of people who believe that it makes scientific fact null and void, that science is just a bunch of nonsense created by evil atheists to disprove God.
It doesn't matter what you think, but it does matter what the people as a whole think.
And as a teacher of young minds, that statistic should bother you.
Except that science must be ignored in order to believe that...
Not at all. The world is as the world is whether God created it in a blink or over millennia. Since it looks the same either way, nothing needs to be ignored. Science is the same either way.
I don't think I'll ever know whether God created the world in a blink or over millennia. Fortunately, I don't need to know to keep making progress.
But this isn't all about you. This is about the majority of people who believe that it makes scientific fact null and void, that science is just a bunch of nonsense created by evil atheists to disprove God.
It doesn't matter what you think, but it does matter what the people as a whole think.
And as a teacher of young minds, that statistic should bother you.
I'm living proof you can both believe in God and study science. One does not negate the other.
The charge was that the reason the US lags in science is because of religious beliefs. What I am is living proof that religious beliefs don't have to stand in the way of science. I'm proof the blame is being put in the wrong place. What's really funny about this whole discussion is I was eduated...in science... beside a few hundred other science majors at the time and thousands since then....in a.....drumroll please..... Jesuit university. The Jesuits are big on science...and religion.
My point is that it's not religion that is keeping us back in science. As a teacher, I'll put my 2 cents in here and say it's laziness. Science is hard. We don't raise our kids to do hard. We raise our kids to chase grades....to memorize long enough to take the test and then forget....we don't expect them to think deeply about anything because that is hard and, as parents, we might not have bragging rights to how brilliant our offspring are if they do hard.....and it might hurt their egos.... Blaming religion is a cop out. One can believe God created the earth and still study science. The two are not mutually exclusive. Laziness and hard, however, are. We're lousy at science because science is hard and we don't do hard.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-02-2013 at 04:31 PM..
I'm living proof you can both believe in God and study science. One does not negate the other.
You are not everybody. That's your rationalization. Don't you understand the concept that it's not healthy for this country for a large percentage of other people to ignore science in favor of a story?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the majority of those that believe the earth is 6,000 years old also poo poo your fancy physics and your blasphemous biology, because science doesn't fit the narrative.
I'm living proof you can both believe in God and study science. One does not negate the other.
The charge was that the reason the US lags in science is because of religious beliefs. What I am is living proof that religious beliefs don't have to stand in the way of science. I'm proof the blame is being put in the wrong place. What's really funny about this whole discussion is I was eduated...in science... beside a few hundred other science majors at the time and thousands since then....in a.....drumroll please..... Jesuit university. The Jesuits are big on science...and religion.
My point is that it's not religion that is keeping us back in science. As a teacher, I'll put my 2 cents in here and say it's laziness. Science is hard. We don't raise our kids to do hard. We raise our kids to chase grades....to memorize long enough to take the test and then forget....we don't expect them to think deeply about anything because that is hard and, as parents, we might not have bragging rights to how brilliant our offspring are if they do hard.....and it might hurt their egos.... Blaming religion is a cop out. One can believe God created the earth and still study science. The two are not mutually exclusive. Laziness and hard, however, are. We're lousy at science because science is hard and we don't do hard.
I see you edited your post.
I'm going to reiterate my point - which is that a large number of people who believe the earth is 6,000 years old don't do science, not because it's hard, but because there's no point in it for them. They've already got it figured out. It's not laziness, it's bliss.
Of course it's relevant. When we study forensic science, paleontology and geology, we have to keep facts in mind, rather than pretend that God is tricking us by making things look old, or that Satan is seeding the earth with fossils to confound us and test our faith.
Excellent point! I was hoping someone would explain this.
No, but I was married to an American Jew. Why does it matter? Am I not allowed to use Jewish idioms? Can I eat Jewish food?
As an American Jew I officially bestow the title "Honorary Jew" upon you. You are now entitled to use Jewish idioms and eat Jewish food.
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One does not negate the other.
