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Surely you haven't given the subject a great deal of attention, because I cannot not even begin to list the plethora of court actions attempting to bar christmas displays, some successful, some not. And some of these cases have dragged on for years!!
And good for them! If you want to put something up at your church or your own private property, you go right ahead, but my tax dollars should not be paying for your manger scenes, displays of your commandments in court rooms, and ridiculous non-science in public school classrooms. Freedom of speech and religion means you get to say and express what you want on YOUR time and dime, not mine.
BTW, that little expletive in the second paragraph is not very Christianly of you.
Nothing in particular, save tradition. To quote an old saying "why do you need an excuse to party." My family used to do a big Christmas eve party, there were maybe 2-4 of us that were Christian out of 8-12 people.
Now most of us have moved on and we don't do much for Christmas anymore.
Besides, the origins of Christmas are as wrapped up in pagan Winter festivals and the cult of Mithras as they are with the nativity story. Easter, similarly, is an even MORE pagan-rooted holiday (even the name of the holiday is that of a pagan goddess.)
Do I have to literally believe that an invisible supernatural being impregnated a virgin so she would give birth to the invisible supernatural being in human form, etc., etc. for the day/celebration to be meaningful?
I say no.
Whether or not I happen to believe in the nativity story, I believe in and get good, warm feelings from the deeper message of giving, sharing, fellowship, joy and sacrifice that the story conveys.
No despising anything at all.
And I have absolutely no problem with displays of Christmas symbols or wishes of "Merry Christmas."
I think most people embrace Christmas celebration for the same reasons, and they are certainly good things to embrace. You can count me among the lovers of the Christmas season for the same basic reasons! In that we share common ground.
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Originally Posted by Griffis
This is one of the biggest piles of horse poop ever posted on the internet, and that is saying a lot.
Roughly 80% of people in America identify themselves as being Christian.
Christians in this country have their own television networks, radio stations, retail business chains, publishing companies, advertising firms, lines of clothing, record labels, etc., etc.
And that's leaving aside the fact you can't drive four blocks in any city or town or village in America without seeing at least one church, mega-church or church billboard.
And that is all well and good. This is how it should be. Christians are free to practice their faith and engage in such businesses and profit from what they may. This is their right, and I would fight for their right to do so.
But given these facts, don't turn around and pretend that Christians are somehow some poor, marginalized, persecuted and mistreated group in America.
Nothing could be further from the truth. It's nothing but baseless infantile whiny nonsense.
While all those examples you cite are indeed true, not a single one serves as any evidence whatsoever disproving the examples I've cited showing the organized efforts to bar religious celebrations in public, and disallow free expression as protected by the 1st Ammendment. This is a fallacious argument absent of any form of reasoned logic. You might as well cite the millions of fords on the highway as proof that chevys don't exist.
Truth is, your general tone isn't just dismissive of my point, but is just as dismissive of Christianity, and the manner in which you outline ALL of the manifestations of it throughout our society sounds as though you find it a bit too much, while pretending to be OK with it.
Whether that is true or not is not pertinent to the fact that simply claiming my poistition is a "load of poop", while failing to address any single point I raised is what is "juvenile" behavior, as well as a tacit confession that you are unable to effectively refute my points with reasoned arguments.
So, until you can discuss/disprove my points like an adult ... we'll just consider you a mouthy child standing there with EGG-nog on your face.
And good for them! If you want to put something up at your church or your own private property, you go right ahead, but my tax dollars should not be paying for your manger scenes, displays of your commandments in court rooms, and ridiculous non-science in public school classrooms. Freedom of speech and religion means you get to say and express what you want on YOUR time and dime, not mine.
BTW, that little expletive in the second paragraph is not very Christianly of you.
My, my, .... your tax dollars, aye? Number one ... the reference you made to the ten commandments in the courthouse square was paid for with private money, not tax dollars. It was ordered removed in a blatant violation of the 1st Ammendment which prohibits the interference of freedom of religious expression and free speech, for which it does not exempt public property. In fact, anyone with half a brain would realize that public property is inferred as the space protected FOR such expressions ... because private property would need no special considerations/protections due to it being the sole discretion of the property owner as to what is displayed on THEIR property. The same principle can be applied to freedom of speech ... what freedom exists under your tyrannical mindset that claims a person free to say what he cares to, as long as he does so ONLY in the confines of his own home?
What short sightedness sets the stage for is that all of your rights are immediiately placed in jeopardy by defending the violations of others rights.
As a side note, if you are worried about your tax dollars, you might want to place that concern on the Hundreds of Billions being stolen by banker gangsters, and the Trillions being spent blowing up and invading other countries, rather than worry about christmas decorations.
My, my, .... your tax dollars, aye? Number one ... the reference you made to the ten commandments in the courthouse square was paid for with private money, not tax dollars. It was ordered removed in a blatant violation of the 1st Ammendment which prohibits the interference of freedom of religious expression and free speech, for which it does not exempt public property. In fact, anyone with half a brain would realize that public property is inferred as the space protected FOR such expressions ... because private property would need no special considerations/protections due to it being the sole discretion of the property owner as to what is displayed on THEIR property. The same principle can be applied to freedom of speech ... what freedom exists under your tyrannical mindset that claims a person free to say what he cares to, as long as he does so ONLY in the confines of his own home?
What short sightedness sets the stage for is that all of your rights are immediiately placed in jeopardy by defending the violations of others rights.
As a side note, if you are worried about your tax dollars, you might want to place that concern on the Hundreds of Billions being stolen by banker gangsters, and the Trillions being spent blowing up and invading other countries, rather than worry about christmas decorations.
One of the best posts on this subject I've read in a long time.
I've never met a Christian in person who thinks there is a war on it or feels persecuted (not counting newly converted teenagers who think everyone is against them anyway). I suspect it's an internet meme come to life is all, and everyone online who posts such stuff just doesn't want to feel left out. And for a fact, people love oneupmanship when it comes to telling tall tales.
While all those examples you cite are indeed true, not a single one serves as any evidence whatsoever disproving the examples I've cited showing the organized efforts to bar religious celebrations in public, and disallow free expression as protected by the 1st Ammendment. This is a fallacious argument absent of any form of reasoned logic.
I get it. We all get it. Part of your Christian faith entails you needing to adopt the role of being a victim of persecution.
As I accurately pointed out, that is a laughable claim to make as a Christian in the Western World, but go ahead--knock yourself out.
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Truth is, your general tone isn't just dismissive of my point, but is just as dismissive of Christianity...
To be candid, I am dismissive of all religions equally, while at the same time I stringently endorse the rights of any individual to believe and worship however they wish, as long as it doesn't impinge upon the rights of others.
I celebrate family and friends and enjoy an end to another good year by giving gifts to loved ones. Just because Christmas might be a religious holiday to you, doesn't mean it is a religious holiday for everyone that celebrates Christmas.
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War on Christmas!!
