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Old 12-03-2013, 11:29 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,519 posts, read 33,809,529 times
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This was 34 years ago and still rings so true today. We are exactly where he predicted.
We have not been a free nation since the 1890's




Milton Friedman on Donahue - 1979 - YouTube
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:30 AM
 
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I actually had a conversation about this recently. I threw out the 1800's as an example as well.
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Old 12-03-2013, 01:30 PM
 
4,709 posts, read 3,506,647 times
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Do progressives -- err, 'liberals' -- ever have a rational argument? More often than not, they seem to engage in deflection/name calling/temper tantrums.

But hey, after all, they are the "intelligent" ones, right?
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Old 12-03-2013, 01:42 PM
 
Location: South Bay
1,404 posts, read 867,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post
Do progressives -- err, 'liberals' -- ever have a rational argument? More often than not, they seem to engage in deflection/name calling/temper tantrums.

But hey, after all, they are the "intelligent" ones, right?
Being a progressive, and being a liberal are two entirely different things. I'd argue that centrist liberals are reasonable. Progressive liberals, on the other hand, not so much.

The problem is that progressives rationalize every wrong-minded ideology they push. When a person can argue that communism is good, even though historical evidence that shows it fails every time, you know they're spun.

They are the intelligent ones, except to intelligent people. When people continually trumpet how smart they are, you can bet they fall well low on the IQ scale as a group.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:03 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,519 posts, read 33,809,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman View Post
Being a progressive, and being a liberal are two entirely different things. I'd argue that centrist liberals are reasonable. Progressive liberals, on the other hand, not so much.

The problem is that progressives rationalize every wrong-minded ideology they push. When a person can argue that communism is good, even though historical evidence that shows it fails every time, you know they're spun.

They are the intelligent ones, except to intelligent people. When people continually trumpet how smart they are, you can bet they fall well low on the IQ scale as a group.


Liberal, was the rebranding of Progressives after WW-II and the nations hatred for socialism, of any kind.
The masks only recently came off.

Teddy Roosevelt was the original Progressive and he was a Republican. Then Hoover was also a Progressive Republican.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:14 PM
 
Location: South Bay
1,404 posts, read 867,824 times
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Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Liberal, was the rebranding of Progressives after WW-II and the nations hatred for socialism, of any kind.
The masks only recently came off.

Teddy Roosevelt was the original Progressive and he was a Republican. Then Hoover was also a Progressive Republican.
Yes, but this was over 100 years ago. Progressives are basically totalitarians/authoritarians pushing a centralized government. Both the D and R is filled with progressives, and both are aiming for an oligarchy headed by the new elite class of politicians. They only pretend to be different. I'm not sure there has actually been two entirely unique parties in twenty years.

One thing I know for sure... Libertarians must keep from being hijacked. We are the last hope for common sense.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:26 PM
 
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Actuall, quite a number of people have gone through his ideas and evaluated them. Even back to 1972 with the Spiro Latsis study. Just because you ignore them, doesn't mean these things don't exist. Any more than a tiger doesn't exist even when a child closes their eyes, sticks their fingers in their ears, and yells really load.

Some ideas were good, some were bad, some simply didn't work when they were tested (such as Chile in 1982 with the monetary crisis). What Libertarians have made of Friedman...there is no rational argument against because their idolization is not rational in the first place. It is certainly not rational to ignore 40 years of debates and critiques of a persons theories, and call anyone who disagrees a socialist. That is good evidence the person is a wingnut.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:51 PM
 
14,208 posts, read 6,114,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman View Post
Being a progressive, and being a liberal are two entirely different things. I'd argue that centrist liberals are reasonable. Progressive liberals, on the other hand, not so much.

The problem is that progressives rationalize every wrong-minded ideology they push. When a person can argue that communism is good, even though historical evidence that shows it fails every time, you know they're spun.

They are the intelligent ones, except to intelligent people. When people continually trumpet how smart they are, you can bet they fall well low on the IQ scale as a group.
No, I think many of them would score very high on the IQ scale. Highly intelligent people are more susceptible to ideology. It's a phenomenon that is well known to cult leaders and al Qaeda. I once saw a piece on cult members, and the most common members are highly educated. They're more open to new ideas. A google search on this topic lead me to this article from the California State University East Bay.

Cult Members: Who Are They?

Similarly, there was an Arab-English man who was recruited by terrorists. After prison time for setting up a car bomb, he was rehabilitated and now works to counter terrorism recruitment on college campuses. He said he goes to college campuses because that's a favorite recruiting site for al Qaeda because those people are more open to their ideas. I tried to do a google search, but didn't have time. I have to go pick up my daughter, but will look for that information later.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:13 PM
 
9,472 posts, read 5,906,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katygirl68 View Post
No, I think many of them would score very high on the IQ scale. Highly intelligent people are more susceptible to ideology. It's a phenomenon that is well known to cult leaders and al Qaeda. I once saw a piece on cult members, and the most common members are highly educated. They're more open to new ideas. A google search on this topic lead me to this article from the California State University East Bay.

Cult Members: Who Are They?

Similarly, there was an Arab-English man who was recruited by terrorists. After prison time for setting up a car bomb, he was rehabilitated and now works to counter terrorism recruitment on college campuses. He said he goes to college campuses because that's a favorite recruiting site for al Qaeda because those people are more open to their ideas. I tried to do a google search, but didn't have time. I have to go pick up my daughter, but will look for that information later.
I doubt the IQ / gullibility linkage. Rather, I think it's a combination of things:

1. Learning style - if you learn by reading a book, without needing experience, then you're used to accepting what you read as factual. You make things into a premise without ever testing the validity of said premise.

2. Lack of principled belief. If you have no principled grounding, you can far more easily be talked into things that would be rejected outright by someone who carefully measured things against principle.

3. Acceptance of moral relativism. Conservatives are often criticized for having only "black and white" views, with no gray. This isn't particularly true. Rather, they generally have a much narrower area of 'gray' with very solid black and white areas. But rarely do conservative people get involved in cults or terrorists, or otherwise, because they reject things out of hand, that violate the clear lines of right and wrong.

It may be more urban legend or perhaps stereotyping, but I also think that highly educated ( liberal arts education, for instance) people have willingly lowered their self defense barriers - they think themselves smart enough to "play with fire and not get burned", so to speak.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:27 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,592 posts, read 12,342,433 times
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I think there are highly intelligent - brilliant even - people from all points of the political spectrum. I find it fatuous to claim that one group is "smart" and the other ones are "dumb."

The differences conservatives, moderates, and liberals have are philosophical. That is all.
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