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Old 12-05-2013, 05:40 AM
 
9,473 posts, read 5,694,367 times
Reputation: 2161

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
OK so how do we make all citizens productive? magic fairy dust?
Employment. No, not make work, but doing something valuable.

Quote:
Now dont get me wrong, if you have a good idea I am all for it. But...its a imperfect world, we dont have perfect knowledge of everyone and thier issues or capabilities. And some of the ideas I have heard dont put a second of thought into the unintended consequences, or what it would make our society.
That's why government is not supposed to forcibly control things in our lives. That way us imperfect humans can make mistakes, but those mistakes are not forced on everyone else - like they are when government gets to control people, economy, etc.

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So far the best idea I have heard is a guarenteed income for all, and taxes to pay for it. With everyone getting it, no means testing. That way we stop this sick thing where if you make $100 more you lose $1,000 in income. And we set a base level for everyone. but its too much like socialism for the conservatives to pass I think. dunno. Maybe as things change.
This IN NO WAY advances employment, productivity, or even incentive to work.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Fredericktown,Ohio
6,568 posts, read 4,192,418 times
Reputation: 2580
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
I love the assumption that people that get a guaranteed income would work less. a lot of countries have one....and...people still work.

Theres this assumption that people are lazy, most arent. those that are...already are.
Since I am in a two income family and we know how to live good being poor if the min. income was 1200 bucks I would not go to work. It has nothing to do with being lazy I would use my energy on my farm and small income projects instead of working for a employer. Why would I waste my time?
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Fredericktown,Ohio
6,568 posts, read 4,192,418 times
Reputation: 2580
My theory is why we are hearing some noise on income inequality and raising the min wage is because our leaders know they need velocity of money. With the velocity of money as they desire the gvt will be able to inflate away some of the debt. Is it realistic to think we can grow the economy and get more velocity when most of job gains are PT or low paying? I say no.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Annandale, VA
5,098 posts, read 4,152,416 times
Reputation: 4199
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post
Anything to distract from the problems of Obamacare, I guess.

It's not like Obama means anything that he says, that's for sure.

Barry needs to just quit and spend the rest of his term looking for a state that will accept him when he leaves office. He needs to update his resume for his first job. I am sure he can get a little more than minimum wage if he tries even though he has no experience.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:43 AM
 
7,372 posts, read 4,471,319 times
Reputation: 3126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
It amazes me how conservatives don't engage with policy. They focus on President Obama said this or Nancy Pelosi said that, actually grappling with policy, is just irrelevant to conservatives.
We will engage with policy when we have the ability to enact policy.

It really shouldn't amaze you that conservatives aren't engaging with policy now. We have progressives in the White House and Senate. The majority tries to implement their policies and the minority tries to stop them until they become the majority and implement their own policies. It's pretty simple logic. Nothing amazing.
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Look, in this nation nearly all the income gains have gone to the top for more than 30years.
Yes. Especially under Obama.
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Men's wages have been stagnate for a long time, family incomes are lower or stagnate.
And the Democrat solution is to increase regulation, reduce domestic energy production, and increase corporate taxes. Brilliant.
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We had less income inequality in the past, and our nation's economy was in much better shape.
True. You can track the rise of liberalism in this nation and the stagnation and decline of our economy in a direct relationship. Liberals will of course deny this, but you can't change reality. Massive expansion of entitlements, massive increases in regulations on business, decline in the quality of the education workers receive, debilitating liabilities from concessions to out of control labor unions, pushes to increase capital gains taxes, etc all coincide with poor economic performance.
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The income inequality we have is the result of policy choices that favor the rich over everyone else.
Yes. Policy choices made by Democrats.
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I say some of those policies can be modified and rolled back.
No you don't. You're a liberal. I've seen your posts. Your version of rolling these policies back is simply putting in more government regulation and wealth redistribution. All that does is widen the income gap.

You all see things purely in terms of the CEO of Walmart versus the janitor at Walmart. You want to set economic policy with your emotions. But the reality is that the CEO of Walmart has the resources to get around your punitive policies while the small businesses don't. So you end up increasing the wealth of the super rich at the expense of the smaller businesses who are the ones that actually employ more than half the people in the nation. You stifle their expansion. You don't look at the consequences of your actions beforehand, and when the results of your actions are negative you look around for the nearest rich conservative to blame.
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Raising the minimum wage doesn't lower the number of workers.
And here's an example of what I just talked about. Raising the minimum cannot help but lower the number of workers. It's economically impossible for it not to. Think with your head instead of your heart. Yes it would be nice if minimum wage were $15/hr and nobody lost their jobs and no prices were raised and all employers simply took the cost upon themselves and lowered profits. But we don't live in fantasyland.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Austin
11,110 posts, read 6,303,534 times
Reputation: 12039
Obama should know a great deal about income inequality since few Presidents have done more to increase inequality than he has. Median household income has fallen since the he took office in 2008, while the rich have done very well thanks to the FED inflating stock and house prices. He is not Robin Hood. He is the sheriff of Nottingham.

He just wants to deflect attention from the disaster of Obamacare. Anything to avoid discussing that fiasco.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 70,313,539 times
Reputation: 27525
Obama wants to raise min wage to $10/hr over 3 years.
Most who work min wage are making that now if they stay there long enough.

It's still not enough to compensate for the various welfare programs.
And Obama knows that.
He's throwing a number out there and you're all gobbling it up.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:26 AM
 
15,795 posts, read 8,637,747 times
Reputation: 6249
This is about Obama's numbers being low, so he does what he always does in such situations, he runs to the left, tosses out some red meat for the hard left progressives (his ideological home) and hopes that gets his numbers up.

this is not about anything that relates to reality.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 70,313,539 times
Reputation: 27525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
This is about Obama's numbers being low, so he does what he always does in such situations, he runs to the left, tosses out some red meat for the hard left progressives (his ideological home) and hopes that gets his numbers up.

this is not about anything that relates to reality.
That's right Ferd.

$30/hr is what is needed to get a family of 4 off of SNAP, medicaid and free lunch.

No one wants to put a dollar value to these programs because it will scare the crap out of them.
And business cannot afford to pay that high of a min wage.

They want to shift the burden of welfare from the government to business.
Business isn't going to play.

You cannot legislate prosperity.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:54 AM
 
38,133 posts, read 19,159,287 times
Reputation: 12132
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post

You cannot legislate prosperity.
Democrats and liberals believe government can legislate prosperity. So many people buy into it and will wait too.
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