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Old 12-06-2013, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Republic of Texas
988 posts, read 1,014,722 times
Reputation: 707

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Quote:
Originally Posted by houston-nomad View Post
What are you quoting? What is minimum wage meant to be, if not a means to support oneself? If it's not enough to support a single adult, what is that adult supposed to do?

Believe me, I'm a believer in pulling oneself up by the bootstraps. Hard work. Taking care of oneself and one's family. But I also know that a lot of people are BORN INTO poverty, lack role models, had none of the opportunities I had. Working hard, every day, at a minimum wage represents a victory to many people. So yes, I have empathy and compassion. And I'm astonished at how few of the people commenting here do. I think you really don't want to admit that life isn't fair... and that you have, in fact, benefitted from the luck of birth, and not just from your own hard work.
Minimum wage is meant for teenagers not adults. Adults are supposed to learn a marketable skill that commands a higher wage. Flipping burgers is not a career. It is a job for teenagers.

Don't give me that "luck of birth" and "lack of opportunitity" horse crap. This is America and we have plenty of opportunity available to anyone willing to grasp it, no matter what your socio-economic background.

Why is it that dirt poor Vietnamese immigrants can float into Galveston on a piece of driftwood, and three years later they own 4 dry cleaners, a nail salon, and a pho restaurant?

 
Old 12-06-2013, 11:57 AM
 
1,609 posts, read 2,879,079 times
Reputation: 2181
You are on a piece of driftwood floating in a sea of contradictory myths. Enjoy the ride.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Republic of Texas
988 posts, read 1,014,722 times
Reputation: 707
Quote:
Originally Posted by houston-nomad View Post
You are on a piece of driftwood floating in a sea of contradictory myths. Enjoy the ride.
I am floating on a steel-reinforced galleon of reality, armed with an array of laissez-faire cannons and 8-lb cannonballs filled with the principles of market economics.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:04 PM
 
1,609 posts, read 2,879,079 times
Reputation: 2181
Yes, because recent history demonstrated the principles of market economics to be totally full-proof. Oh wait... who was it that got huge "guvment" bailouts? Huge banks? The automotive industry? Anyone else? Keep talking.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:15 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,116,820 times
Reputation: 5225
A spectre is haunting city data........

Seriously, the religion of anti-communism is alive and well on this forum. It must be considering more than half of you in here are most likely aging baby boomer types in managerial positions or in the middle class, which explains the utterly annoying and empty middle class moral rhetoric, especially from Eric.

The right wing indignant anger is not only laughable but a bit scary in it's determination to see under-represented people suffer the brunt of poverty wages. It not only openly shows you're elitism but your knack to really keep the status quo.

Thank god your tea bagger selves weren't around during the labor battles of the early twentieth century when workers had enough and demanded higher wages, unemployment insurance, the weekend, the end of child labor, collective bargaining rights, and all the great things that brought us....the middle class. Yet, if the market was so natural and all these things just naturally sprang about and the market corrects everything in it's all majestic splendor then by George those lazy scumbag union men shouldn't have demanded the fruits of their labor. Children should've stayed in the mills and worker protection, pfft...merely a lazy cop out not to work in crowded conditions.

But that was the past you say? That type of organizing is not needed? Well, in case many of you have not noticed REAL wages have not risen to keep up pace with inflation, unemployment is high, manufacturing has largely moved overseas. Two out of three of these were decisions made by the owners of wealth not just some market mechanism that said the economy goes from local to national to global. So sorry to burst your Austrian riddled libertarian economic laden brains, but there is no such thing as a "free market". Right now tell that to Bangladeshi garment workers that they're going to have to just pipe down and wait for higher wages because the market will eventually naturally correct that imbalance.

The standard of living did not rise in this country simply due to more productivity and the owners or even politicians being so generous as to hand a higher wage and more benefits to us. The workers got up and took it. And I am sorry if those sentiments offend you so much but I guess you can chalk it up to nature? IDK.

As for spitting on the notion that other nations don't have it better because they're paying a high price for certain items. Do you think everyone there is making the minimum? Like I said before from a purely utilitarian pov, the worker gains more than you lose, when you pay a few more cents per burger. And that is how the people in those nations would prefer it before you would have them switch on over to a more lassiez faire model. They would riot in the streets if you told them had to go into debt for higher education and pay for medical care all while working for a lower wage.
Are you people THIS daft?

Seriously I am so glad that your ilk are a dying relic in this nation and that younger people are realizing that they're getting it both ways from major companies who think they can write all the rules, lobby to buy out Congress and then spread their right wing economics as if that is the only school of economic thought. Yet, gullibility should be a sin because many in here are guilty of that by believing every myth in the book about low wage workers. Coupled with the ridiculous anecdotal evidence it just makes that much more entertaining to read. I've never seen so many presumptions, appeals to nature and off the wall assertions that everything they know to be right is self evident, so it must be right circular reasoning, in my entire life.

Give it up, you guys cannot get around the fact that wages are stagnant and profits and productivity are sky high. That means someone's getting the shaft. You repeat canned answers amply provided by the priests of neo-classical economics at Fox News but you guys still won't get anywhere because for the lack of better phrasing...you guys live in your own world! The fight is to spread those profits a bit more evenly. Plain and simple. You guys hide behind the notion that it's going against the market, but really just really give up the charade and be open about where your sensibilities lie. It's not for the cretin fast food dead beat burger flipper, it's for the liberty loving absolutely rational owner of business who holds the keys to the American order. For if these lazy bums were to tear any more concessions away from him, my god, we would have anarchy! That is how utterly ridiculous you all sound.

Repeating right wing economic arguments does not make you some rational thinking person that is just being purely objective on this matter and seeing the fallacies of the fast food supporters. It just puts you on one side of a political battle which will continue on until some concessions are made. The sooner you get this through your heads the more at peace you will be.

Thank You.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:15 PM
 
14,879 posts, read 18,982,656 times
Reputation: 11886
I love the way people here talk about "burger flippers" as if they were some kind of society trash people

That's fine, pay them $2/hour
just remember, you get what you pay for.... so don't be surprised when the guy that makes
$320/month before taxes make burgers without washing his hands.


Coming from another country I'm very familiar with what's called "Living wage" (amount of money required for a person or family to stay alive)
Funny that I never hear "Living wage" mentioned in the US.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:24 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,116,820 times
Reputation: 5225
When have you ever?
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:27 PM
 
1,163 posts, read 1,163,826 times
Reputation: 924
I think the people who change sheets at Motel 6 should get $15 an hour too...
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:29 PM
 
1,163 posts, read 1,163,826 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
don't be surprised when the guy that makes
$320/month before taxes make burgers without washing his hands.

What makes you think they do now?
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:30 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,116,820 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker5in1 View Post
I think the people who change sheets at Motel 6 should get $15 an hour too...
Do you guys make less than 15 an hour? Is that why many of you would be butt hurt if the workers had their way? I mean what is it?

Don't you guys think that it would start a wave of demanding higher wages in all industries? The wages remain stagnant in many fields, yet profits are higher than ever as is productivity. How do you people just not wrap your minds around this and think maybe, just maybe, there is something not right about this, or are many of you just under this delusion that you're being the "bigger person" by not questioning it and kissing up to the boss.

I mean seriously, I would like to know what is the logic and morality behind this thinking?
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