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Old 12-06-2013, 11:36 AM
 
Location: San Diego
35,162 posts, read 32,136,802 times
Reputation: 19721

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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
Do you guys make less than 15 an hour? Is that why many of you would be butt hurt if the workers had their way? I mean what is it?

Don't you guys think that it would start a wave of demanding higher wages in all industries? The wages remain stagnant in many fields, yet profits are higher than ever as is productivity. How do you people just not wrap your minds around this and think maybe, just maybe, there is something not right about this, or are many of you just under this delusion that you're being the "bigger person" by not questioning it and kissing up to the boss.

I mean seriously, I would like to know what is the logic and morality behind this thinking?

Spiral inflation. If everyone's salary doubled so would the price of everything else. If the FF workers get 15 then you have to raise the Supevisors wage to quite a bit above that and/or what they are making now. Then other similar jobs would point to that as the benchmark.

 
Old 12-06-2013, 11:46 AM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,536,732 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Spiral inflation. If everyone's salary doubled so would the price of everything else. If the FF workers get 15 then you have to raise the Supevisors wage to quite a bit above that and/or what they are making now. Then other similar jobs would point to that as the benchmark.
God there have been so many studies already debunking this.

A Higher Wage Is Possible | Demos

Again the debate lies in spreading the profits evenly. Rising prices will happen but by how much is up to how much the top brass wants to reduce their share. Again the issue lies in what you think is more fair; for the top to reduce their share and for the bottom to get a little more, OR it would be wrong to ask the top to reduce their share.

The problem has always been the same. The thing is that many studies have shown how it's more economical in the long run for the wealth to be somewhat spread, this is a tangible thing that could happen, but many also think that telling people to lower their high salaries is tantamount to Stalinism or some crap like that. So one offers a tangible solution while the other lives in a fantasy of moralistic platitudes and idealistic drivel that makes no material sense.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 11:57 AM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,536,732 times
Reputation: 5225
What you guys seem to be forgetting is that this fight is the same one that's existed since the advent of capitalism. As more profits roll in and productivity is high, the workers at the bottom will demand more of the gains. It's that simple. You guys can have your odious opinions of fast food workers, but you cannot shake off this FACT.

When you guys talk about prices going up, layoffs, the incentive to start up more businesses, etc. you guys are talking about the reaction of owners to keep their profits at the same level. When they do it you guys think it's a completely rational response and tie it some abstract market mechanism that is beyond mere mortals to understand. It's not that complicated.

What is irrational to you guys is to think that the owner should reduce his massive salary so it can be more evenly spread in the workplace. That is tantamount to Bolshevism, Stalinism or whatever other ism you guys like to infer and on top of that it goes against market logic.

These little philosophical presumptions you guys throw out remind of how Creationists with degrees in the philosophy of science debate real scientists with real scientific degrees. Many economists out there say that raising the wages will not make the sky fall.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 11:57 AM
 
4,247 posts, read 10,552,184 times
Reputation: 3115
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
Do you guys make less than 15 an hour? Is that why many of you would be butt hurt if the workers had their way? I mean what is it?

Don't you guys think that it would start a wave of demanding higher wages in all industries? The wages remain stagnant in many fields, yet profits are higher than ever as is productivity. How do you people just not wrap your minds around this and think maybe, just maybe, there is something not right about this, or are many of you just under this delusion that you're being the "bigger person" by not questioning it and kissing up to the boss.

I mean seriously, I would like to know what is the logic and morality behind this thinking?

Do you believe a burger flipper deserves to earn as much if not more than any of these people starting out?

Police officer
HVAC Tech
Auto Mechanic
Electrician
Teller
Secretary
Truck Driver
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:01 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,536,732 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by piyf View Post
Do you believe a burger flipper deserves to earn as much if not more than any of these people starting out?

Police officer
HVAC Tech
Auto Mechanic
Electrician
Teller
Secretary
Truck Driver
No, their salaries should rise too. I've already addressed this several times and you guys are coming up with the most asinine responses ever. All wages should be examined relative to their industry. If the profits are high and the productivity is high, yet the wages remain stagnant in their respective field, then they should go up.

It's been a long time coming and the reason why I support the fast food workers is because it could be a catalyst to waking up people to this fact that NONE of you can wrap your minds around or debase.

Get over it!
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:15 PM
 
692 posts, read 882,031 times
Reputation: 1758
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
It's been a long time coming and the reason why I support the fast food workers is because it could be a catalyst to waking up people to this fact that NONE of you can wrap your minds around or debase.

Get over it!
Thanks, got it now. We are stupid because we don't want to debate your fantasies about equal wages and redistribution of profits.

Back on topic: it is ludicrous to overpay someone with absolutely no skills whatsoever and. And thanks for pointing out what dolts we are, comrade!
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Cypress, TX
891 posts, read 2,514,503 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
No, their salaries should rise too. I've already addressed this several times and you guys are coming up with the most asinine responses ever. All wages should be examined relative to their industry. If the profits are high and the productivity is high, yet the wages remain stagnant in their respective field, then they should go up.
Where did you get this idea? It seems foreign to me. Do you mean the govt should set individual minimum wages for each and every job in this country based on the performance of the industry? Are there any countries in the world that do this?

It seems like common sense to me that wages are based on supply and demand. If all of the sudden the fast food industry was unable to find people to cook food at 7.50/hour, then they would have no choice but to raise wages to fill the positions. But as long as there are plenty of people out there willing to work for the federal mandated minimum wage, that's what they will continue to pay. What is so difficult about this concept?
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:16 PM
 
1,728 posts, read 3,045,086 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by piyf View Post
Do you believe a burger flipper deserves to earn as much if not more than any of these people starting out?

Police officer
HVAC Tech
Auto Mechanic
Electrician
Teller
Secretary
Truck Driver
Yes.
My wife who used to work made 26k/yr. she was some travel-insurance customer service with requirements to speak english/japanese, MSoffice, all other software(very rare and specialized position).... and this is for AIG clientelle. I make that money in a month and I dont speak japanese or deal with clients

Auto mechanics shops already charge $50-100/hr, so yeah just 30% that for the same auto mechanic work is (closer to being) just.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:22 PM
 
409 posts, read 626,634 times
Reputation: 985
Quote:
Originally Posted by 979Texan View Post
Thanks, got it now. We are stupid because we don't want to debate your fantasies about equal wages and redistribution of profits.

Back on topic: it is ludicrous to overpay someone with absolutely no skills whatsoever and. And thanks for pointing out what dolts we are, comrade!
Isn't Radiolibre (formerly the ever-so-annoying BarcelonaFan) about 18 years old and living in California? I say hush a while and wait til you have grown up and seen more of life before acting like O Great One and spewing your nonsense. It's hard to even take you seriously. Give it a rest. You're the main reason I don't like coming to this forum any longer.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
17,032 posts, read 26,866,938 times
Reputation: 16189
Moving this to politics forum as its moved into a theoretical debate on how to run businesses.
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