U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-06-2013, 01:52 PM
 
25,060 posts, read 22,101,322 times
Reputation: 11576

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Of course I don't accept that. Wages are a product of supply and demand. When the supply of labor is limited, wages will rise. Your side wants unlimited illegal immigration because that drastically disrupts the supply and demand by making cheap labor unlimited. Wages are pushed down or at least stagnate.

There is no other real reason for your craving of unlimited third world immigration other than the cheap votes included.
And what did I just say? I said that there's only ONE way to rectify this problem, and that is to bump up the minimum wage so that way US CITIZENS will WANT to work in a meatpacking plant, in the fields, etc. Either the elites start to pitch in and sacrifice SOME of their excesses, or we keep bringing in 3rd world labor. Make..a..choice. Either you get US workers motivated enough to work in the most undesirable jobs, or you lock out 3rd world labor like you want, and just let the store shelves sit empty. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

 
Old 12-06-2013, 01:54 PM
 
1,058 posts, read 1,615,259 times
Reputation: 797
May I ask what they have done to "earn" a bump in the MW????? About half the time I place an order at a FF joint it is messed up! If you cannot even follow someone saying "no pickles" than you deserve squat in my book! Raise FF workers pay, and you better bump up every other job by an equal amount! There IS a reason that FF workers are at the bottom of the pay chain! No skills whatsoever!!!!!
 
Old 12-06-2013, 01:55 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,008,915 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
And what did I just say? I said that there's only ONE way to rectify this problem, and that is to bump up the minimum wage so that way US CITIZENS will WANT to work in a meatpacking plant, in the fields, etc. Either the elites start to pitch in and sacrifice SOME of their excesses, or we keep bringing in 3rd world labor. Make..a..choice. Either you get US workers motivated enough to work in the most undesirable jobs, or you lock out 3rd world labor like you want, and just let the store shelves sit empty. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Aren't a lot of these jobs undesirable because they're low pay with long hours and little benefits? Wouldn't it make sense to raise the standards up to where the pay is higher, the benefits better and there is some say as to what happens in the workplace?

I could've sworn working a union job in the meatpacking industry was something of a staple of pride back in the day, no?
 
Old 12-06-2013, 01:56 PM
 
25,060 posts, read 22,101,322 times
Reputation: 11576
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
What the heck do illegals have anything to do with this argument? The argument boils down to a simple concept; how much is being made in production? Look at the profits. For the big companies they are high as heck, yet the wages are low. The ratio of the highest paid to the lowest paid is outrageous and the taxpayers is left picking up the tab for the social services many have to go into to cover the cost of their falling purchasing power, that or debt finance which is also out of control.

It's a simple under-consumptionist argument. Why are you guys coming up with these outrageous arguments about how you think that burger flipping is too low of a job to demand higher pay or what not?
I was arguing it from another angle as well, in favor of raising the minimum wage. Your angle, which is perfectly valid and equally as good, is that we have a budget crisis going on. Spending more money on welfare, and cutting corporate taxes, is not going to solve our budget crisis. There is a capital strike (as opposed to a union strike) going on right now. The government needs to step in and bust the strike up by big business.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 01:56 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,008,915 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilehiDenver View Post
May I ask what they have done to "earn" a bump in the MW????? About half the time I place an order at a FF joint it is messed up! If you cannot even follow someone saying "no pickles" than you deserve squat in my book! Raise FF workers pay, and you better bump up every other job by an equal amount! There IS a reason that FF workers are at the bottom of the pay chain! No skills whatsoever!!!!!
Oh god, not this ridiculous argument again. It's so childish it barely deserves a response.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 01:57 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
And what did I just say? I said that there's only ONE way to rectify this problem, and that is to bump up the minimum wage so that way US CITIZENS will WANT to work in a meatpacking plant, in the fields, etc. Either the elites start to pitch in and sacrifice SOME of their excesses, or we keep bringing in 3rd world labor. Make..a..choice. Either you get US workers motivated enough to work in the most undesirable jobs, or you lock out 3rd world labor like you want, and just let the store shelves sit empty. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
But Obama intends to dump 11 to 30 million cheap illegal workers into the legal labor force. That makes no sense if you want wages to rise.

Cesar Chavez and the old UFW fought against all this illegal cheap labor for that reason. Now the liberals want to give illegals even more opportunity to grab up any job they want.

Legalizing illegals and handing them easy US citizenship is not to benefit the American worker. All your plan does is pay newly legalized cheap foreign workers $15 an hour and encourage millions more to come on over. Or for illegals to pour on in and grab up the jobs for $10 an hour -- they can be paid under the table.

Limit low skilled labor by enforcing the borders and immigration laws and stop encouraging them to come here illegally with promises of easy amnesty and labor supplies become more limited, wages will rise.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 01:58 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,008,915 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I was arguing it from another angle as well, in favor of raising the minimum wage. Your angle, which is perfectly valid and equally as good, is that we have a budget crisis going on. Spending more money on welfare, and cutting corporate taxes, is not going to solve our budget crisis. There is a capital strike (as opposed to a union strike) going on right now. The government needs to step in and bust the strike up by big business.
That is obvious and I totally agree with that assessment. There is a capital strike in this country that is causing a lot of harm but the people in here only seem to complain when there is a labor strike. I am glad you brought this up.

I just wish they would be open about where they stand instead of hiding behind this notion that they're just defending Economics 101 or something brazen like that.

Is it a defense mechanism to not make it seem like they're just being total tools?
 
Old 12-06-2013, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,194 posts, read 17,683,182 times
Reputation: 7980
The local protest here in Las Vegas was (or was supposed to be) at the McDonald's on Sahara and Paradise. Since it's only about a mile or two from the office, we went after work to get dinner and show our solidarity with the restauranteur.

Nobody was there. Not a single picket sign. Not a single protestor.

I guess it was too cold (around 40-45) for them to take advantage of rush hour at a very busy intersection to get their message out.

This whole movement is a joke. We're talking about 3% or less of working adults, per BLS numbers. Give it up, guys. You're not going to get your wish, nor should you.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Warren County and loving it!
5,079 posts, read 7,243,923 times
Reputation: 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
Again with the bias. Seriously everything companies seem to do has a logical reasoning behind it, doesn't it. Yet a fast food worker asking for more money, well...that's just interfering with the market? It's not me who has the rosy glasses.

Why would the GAO reports come out every year where this practice is rampant? How do you explain the fraud (illegal and legal) on Wall St.



Why do you guys keep repeating the same mantra that the jobs at fast food places are so easy and therefore are relegated to peon status? The jobs are not that easy and hustling to cook the food, ring someone out, prepare the food, package it, deal with the drive through, clean the place and deal with customers...it's tough.

Seriously how do some of you people have the cojones to just completely tear down a job you guys know nothing about. Even if the job was as easy as you guys say, the fact of the matter still stands that these fast food places productivity and profits are up but real wages remain stagnant and have not rise to match inflation.

You guys can scream that the market determines wages all you darn well please, but the fact of the matter is that it's not about that, it's a political battle over those profits. Just admit that you take the side of the owner of business instead of painstakingly hiding behind this asinine idea that you're somehow just defending basic economic sense. That part right there is utterly laughable.

Get this through yer heads, k; right wing economics is not economics 101. You guys parrot the conservative economics of Thomas Sowell and Mliton Friedman and consider that to be the be all end all of Economic thought. That's not the case and it's annoying to hear you guys claim that everyone who doesn't agree with your take on economics just doesn't understand economics. If I were to bring up Paul Krugman or Robert Reich you guys would scream MARXISTS, yet they're economists too, they're respected in their field, as is John K. Galbraith. The world does not revolve around conservative economics.
I did work in fast food in high school. It is very easy. Is it deserving of minimum wage? Yes. More than that? Nope.

It is not meant to be a career that you can raise a family on. If you want to, go to school for hotel and restaurant management like my old manager did. He made decent money but had more responsibility and was compensated accordingly.

There was not line worker or kitchen worked that was a career fast food worker when I was there other than managers. That's just how it is. It's students and retirees.

How are they supposed to learn a more marketable skill? Go to school. Learn something. Take out loans like the rest of us did. Every profitable business requires an initial investment. No better investment than one's self.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 02:02 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,008,915 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
The local protest here in Las Vegas was (or was supposed to be) at the McDonald's on Sahara and Paradise. Since it's only about a mile or two from the office, we went after work to get dinner and show our solidarity with the restauranteur.
I at least admire your honesty as to where you stand.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 

Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
View detailed profiles of:
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top