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Old 12-06-2013, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
3,401 posts, read 1,836,188 times
Reputation: 1072

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Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle View Post
Yes, that is my problem with the whole "living wage" movement. Not every job is supposed to support a family. Some jobs (i.e. fast food) are intended for teenagers, college kids or maybe retirees who want to make a little more money.
Oh.

So why aren't they hiring teenagers, college kids or maybe retirees?

Quote:
While there are always exceptions, I would be astounded if most of the people who can't get jobs better than burger flipping aren't in that situation because of choices they made. Most likely, they squandered the 12-13 years of free education they were provided and now are mad because they are unmarketable as far as jobs are concerned.
All of them? How do you know who they are and what their circumstances are? And even if you're right, so what? Why do you begrudge people trying to convince their employers to pay them more? Because you, personally, disagree with choices you imagine they made?

 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:32 PM
 
5,915 posts, read 4,017,763 times
Reputation: 1396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
All of them? How do you know who they are and what their circumstances are? And even if you're right, so what? Why do you begrudge people trying to convince their employers to pay them more?
No, that's not what they're doing. They're demanding to increase minimum wage across the board.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:32 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,037,348 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3781 View Post
Yes.

What is circular about the fact of reality that you don't get to dictate what is done with other people's or entity's profits?

Battle? Mobilizing? Like as in a military force? Ooh goodie I love a good fight. Especially with gutless collectivist pissant wanna-be bolsheviks that think they can lay claim to my "obscene profits".

No I am not surprised. What gave you that idea? And you didn't tell me anything I haven't already read in Das Kapital.

No the worker's don't get to dictate what they earn, and apart from leaving their current job and taking a higher paying job they are otherwise IMPOTENT in that regard. Just as you don't get to dictate what is done with corporate profits and are IMPOTENT in that regard.

Unions have outlived their usefulness. I think we have repaid them 100 fold for their hard work in getting us the "40 hour work week, weekends, and better working conditions". Thanks, now we have it from here guys, go slink off into the dustbin of history where you belong.

We aren't living in a turn-of-the-20th-century meat packing plant from an Upton Sinclair novel. The Pinkertons aren't coming to get us. The factory dormitories have been shuttered, except in Communist China's foxconn factories where they make the Apple devices that probably litter your nightstand.

Bye unions, you worthless thugs, you have priced yourself out of the global labor commodity market and have caused the offshoring of millions of American jobs and the shuttering of thousands of American factories with your unreasonable demands. I'd say we're even now.

*Flush*

If only we had a way to reanimate dead tissue, we could exhume Uncle Joe and have him hold a hearing to have the whole lot of you anti-American, seditious, neo-bolshevik provocateurs brought up on treason charges and deported to Cuba.

What rubbish. You act as though workers have no right to demand higher wages. I said from the beginning this was a political fight. All you have to do is say you're against a labor movement not wrap it around in some moralistic platitude that we don't have the right to even the spread.

And this comparing it to Bolshevism is getting tiresome. Get a new schtick.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:33 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,467,762 times
Reputation: 7274
[quote=Seabass Inna Bun;32517573
Why do you begrudge people trying to convince their employers to pay them more?
[/quote]

They have the right to ask, employers have the right to say yes or no, and employers have the right to automate eliminating those positions as they see fit.

Isn't universal free choice a wonderful thing? Both employee and employer are free to make these choices.

Just ask the 18,000 ex Hostess employees who exercised the right to say "No, we will not accept your offer". Ask the ex owners who said "Fine. we'll sell the brands off and fire all of you".

That is a beautiful thing-both freely exercising their rights. Now thousands of the 18k axed can discover how valuable (LOL) a skill being able to insert two puffs of creme into a cakeroll truly is.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
3,401 posts, read 1,836,188 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
No, that's not what they're doing. They're demanding to increase minimum wage across the board.
By striking? Since when do fast food joints determine the minimum wage?
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Republic of Texas
988 posts, read 1,007,810 times
Reputation: 707
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
Are you guys familiar with FA Hayek writing to thatcher to implement the same policies that the murderous Pinochet of chile enacted? He and Friedman were instrumental in that country's economic plan.

People make mistakes.
Is Mao "murderous"? Is Pol Pot "murderous"? Is Stalin "murderous"? Is Che Guevara "murderous"? Maybe those were just "mistakes"?

Or are only "right wing" dictators "murderous"?

Are Hayek's economic principles and suggestions invalid because they were implemented by Pinochet? Because if they are then what do you say to the fact that Hitler didn't smoke and was a vegetarian?
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Republic of Texas
988 posts, read 1,007,810 times
Reputation: 707
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
What rubbish. You act as though workers have no right to demand higher wages. I said from the beginning this was a political fight. All you have to do is say you're against a labor movement not wrap it around in some moralistic platitude that we don't have the right to even the spread.

And this comparing it to Bolshevism is getting tiresome. Get a new schtick.
Workers have the right to leave their current job and find a new one. That's it. It is called the free interaction between consenting adults. Employment at will.

"Stay out of my kitchen!"

You are the one indirectly comparing yourself and your "movement" to bolshevism with your veiled threats of "mobilizing" and "battle" over the worker's "right to the spread". Straight out of the bolshevik handbook.

You are against the economic freedom movement and the right of consenting adults to employ and be employed how they choose and at what wage they choose, so don't try to wrap your neo-Marxist, New Left prattle in some moralistic platitude about how poor and downtrodden the proles are because the mean, evil, gluttonous profiteering bourgeoisie won't "just share the spread".
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:49 PM
 
5,915 posts, read 4,017,763 times
Reputation: 1396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
By striking? Since when do fast food joints determine the minimum wage?
The're demanding the fast food industry to double minimum wage not their personal wages.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
3,401 posts, read 1,836,188 times
Reputation: 1072
If that's so, I think they're barking up the wrong tree. Either they don't understand who sets the minimum wage, you don't understand who sets the minimum wage, or I don't understand who sets the minimum wage.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:52 PM
Status: "Conservatives didn't get far enough." (set 4 hours ago)
 
Location: Suburban Dallas
44,375 posts, read 35,443,198 times
Reputation: 27303
I like a good hamburger as much as anyone, but a burger flipper in most places is no more than an entry-level job. $15 an hour is just too much for fast food workers. It's a slap in the face for other workers in higher businesses and jobs who will end up getting less than what is being proposed for fast food businesses.
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