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Old 12-08-2013, 07:37 AM
 
27,995 posts, read 19,672,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. You can seldom overcome tyranny without violence.

The USA dealt with MLK as an alternative to "any means necessary".

I tried to write something similar last night but couldn't word it correctly. You did so perfectly.

 
Old 12-08-2013, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Los Awesome, CA
8,520 posts, read 4,746,167 times
Reputation: 3303
Mandela was a beacon of hope and freedom fighter against the white supremacist mindset. It's expected that certain types are in opposition to him, even in death...
 
Old 12-08-2013, 10:52 AM
 
1,825 posts, read 1,164,894 times
Reputation: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
From:

The myth of Gandhi and Palestinian reality

Ali Abunimah
The Electronic Intifada
8 September 2004



Violence is always required to end tyranny.
To be fair a lot of that came from the British and Jinnah insisting on the splitting of the Punjab and Bengal which Gandhi was very much against because he knew what would happen.
 
Old 12-08-2013, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,895,723 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldous9 View Post
If you love history then you should give historical figures their due. No historical figure is perfect. Churchill gives us unwavering resolve in the face of evil. Mandela gives us that too (although not on the level of Churchill. As bad as the South African majority was, they were not Hitler by any means). But Mandela gives us something else. He gives us the power to forgive (after being released he forgave his captors and never sought revenge when he had the power to do so) But he also gives us something that is unique in our history, and that is a figure that embodies pure idealism. In the early 80's Mandela's captors wanted to release him. But he refused. And he said he would not leave prison until all of South Africa was free. He spent another decade in prison. After being released from prison he became President. He stayed in prison for a decade not just on principle. That is commendable enough. He stayed in prison because it was the only way to free the rest of South Africa.

That is why Mandela is important. And that is why everyone from President Obama to Ted Cruz have made comments praising Mandela. Whether Mandela was a communist or not is irrelevant. He probably was at one time but he adopted neo-liberal economic policies as President and opened the South Africa up to foreign investment, something a real communist would never do.
Perhaps, but certainly one would agree that he was no saint and due to the changes he brought many innocent have paid a huge price. He may be a hero to many and it is certainly their right to feel the way they do. But is he worthy of the glorified, sanitized version of history that has made him out to be a saint?
 
Old 12-08-2013, 11:29 AM
 
285 posts, read 511,686 times
Reputation: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHABAZZ310 View Post
Mandela was a beacon of hope and freedom fighter against the white supremacist mindset. It's expected that certain types are in opposition to him, even in death...

Nelson Mandela is the perfect example of the power of the economical elite behind the mass media marketing where a terrorist is made into a saint.

While the Western world information was that Nelson Mandela was arrested by the evil white people for ‘fighting for freedom’ the facts are different.



When Mandela was arrested, the following bombing materials were found on the farm where he stayed:
  • 210,000 hand grenades
  • 48,000 anti-personnel mines
  • 1,500 time devices
  • 144 tons of ammonium nitrate
  • 21,6 tons of aluminium powder
  • 1 ton of black powder
Now most people thinks that the original legitimate population of SA are the black (bantu) people and the whites are the only invaders... but that's not quite true.
The original population of SA were the San people. Bantu (blacks) were invaders too.
Actual African probantu politicians pretend that the history of the Khoi and the San people never existed, that the ancient rock paintings were made by the xosha newcomers... stealing the past of the San and Khoi population.
 
Old 12-08-2013, 04:44 PM
 
5,020 posts, read 1,729,611 times
Reputation: 2795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Curious - why does this bother you?
I'll take a stab at it. How about because the UK is the USA's closest ally. It's not polite nor intelligent to insult your closest ally. Is that a good enough reason?

South Africa is a curiosity at best, with very little to offer the USA or anyone else unless it's coming out of a diamond mine.

Violent crime is so bad in SA that only a lunatic or someone who could hire private security would move there. The government's inability to curtail such crime is an international embarrassment, and the extremely barbaric nature of a lot of it speaks to something very evil that has been nurtured and bred there.
 
Old 12-08-2013, 04:57 PM
 
5,020 posts, read 1,729,611 times
Reputation: 2795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post

I embrace the true legacy of Mandela. In the words of the great Malcolm X, "I will not love my enemy. I will fight for the dignity and respect of my people!"
Malcolm X would fight his enemy, but not once peace has been struck. You misunderstand or outright misrepresent his nationalism. Maybe you just don't understand nationalism in general.

Quote:
Why the heck would any indigenous South African care about the afrikaner
and/or boers, when they were responsible for the apartheid regime, which robbed
the indigenous people of South Africa of all of their rights in their
forefather's homeland. Your posts are silly at best, and truly ignorant at
worst. You are asking for people to sympathize with brutal racists murderers; a
thinking logical person would never do such a thing.
By "care" do you mean "care if they are murdered"? Let's clarify.

Well, be careful what you wish for.

If the Afrikaner's/Boers aren't granted peace and security, and that murder is still justified, then you are essentially declaring open war. Is that what you mean to declare as the de-facto state of affairs in SA today?

You remind me of the Muslim who killed Lee Rigby and justified it by declaring England a battleground. Well, okay, but that means that it's a battleground and that murders by either side are legal and justified on that battleground.

It's silly, animalistic logic for anyone that seeks to live in civilized society, but no one can help what you think and how you behave.
 
Old 12-08-2013, 05:04 PM
 
5,020 posts, read 1,729,611 times
Reputation: 2795
Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
You don't know your history or the major accomplishment of what Mandela did then. Mandela lead the way for reconciliation and called for there to be no racial violence in retribution for apartheid. He prevented a blood bath towards the white minority in South Africa.
You're delusional if you think that such a bloodbath would not have been prevented through massive military action. Likely UN. Give Mandela credit if you wish, but you've created a fantasy with this particular perspective. What he did was prevent the need to mobilize UN troops through an administrative action, and in doing so prevented his name and party from being destroyed through that action. To believe that "protecting" the white minority was a selfless act is ridiculous. To make him out to be the lone wolf savior of the white minority is ridiculous.
 
Old 12-08-2013, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
16,433 posts, read 9,290,404 times
Reputation: 6175
Quote:
Originally Posted by kantabriansea View Post
I don't care being politically incorrect.
I'm tired of the massive massmedia coverage about the death of Mandela...
Not sad, he did nothing for the khoisan people.

Look here Genocide of the Khoisan people

No idea which was the power who raised him and turned him into a Saint to the eyes of the world, but he was no Saint at all.
The image sold by the massmedia prentended that he was a kind of political pacifist leader... but he was the leader of a paramilitar organization, the MK.... a organization involved in hundred of killings.
And he "won" the nobel prize... But you won't hear anything about this on the news.
Anyway I understand that he favoured the bantu people, his people, and did nothing for the whites, but there's no excuse for saint mandela, not helping to stop the khoisan genocide.

I'm not buying this.
A quote from the man himself:

Quote by Nelson Mandela: I am not a saint, unless you think of a saint a...
 
Old 12-08-2013, 05:10 PM
 
136 posts, read 92,910 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by kantabriansea View Post
Nelson Mandela is the perfect example of the power of the economical elite behind the mass media marketing where a terrorist is made into a saint.

While the Western world information was that Nelson Mandela was arrested by the evil white people for ‘fighting for freedom’ the facts are different.



When Mandela was arrested, the following bombing materials were found on the farm where he stayed:
  • 210,000 hand grenades
  • 48,000 anti-personnel mines
  • 1,500 time devices
  • 144 tons of ammonium nitrate
  • 21,6 tons of aluminium powder
  • 1 ton of black powder
Now most people thinks that the original legitimate population of SA are the black (bantu) people and the whites are the only invaders... but that's not quite true.
The original population of SA were the San people. Bantu (blacks) were invaders too.
Actual African probantu politicians pretend that the history of the Khoi and the San people never existed, that the ancient rock paintings were made by the xosha newcomers... stealing the past of the San and Khoi population.
LOL, I can't believe you typed such foolishness. LOL LOL LOL

I needed a moment of comedic relief. hahahahahahah

You are insane. Please crawl back into your cave.
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