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Old 12-08-2013, 09:07 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
Why do europeans believe that they should be allowed to enslave and dominate every culture and/or country on earth?
Probably because they had the power, before them it was the Chinese and so on. Tho please remember the Europeans walked away from Africa in just the last 50 years or so because Africa was a loser mess.
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Old 12-08-2013, 09:34 PM
 
18 posts, read 12,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
Why do europeans believe that they should be allowed to enslave and dominate every culture and/or country on earth?
Because every other race does it too but they simply never had the technology to do it globally.

Probably should look at the traditional dealings between the Xhosa and the Zulu in South Africa. Or Chaka Zulu who was running around enslaving each other with spear and shield while wearing a loincloth little more than a century ago.
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Old 12-08-2013, 10:16 PM
 
44,560 posts, read 43,091,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthisntpretty View Post
If thus was true blacks under apartheid would t have had the highest standard living on the continent. Why did so many immigrate to apartheid sa? Stop talking about things you know nothing about
Not in comparison to what Whites had. I'm not talking about what South African Blacks had in comparison to other Africans. I'm talking about Black South Africans in their own land. Blacks were still forcibly moved out of places they had once lived in, and moved into "bantustans".

What I am gathering from your statement is the idea of "Blacks deserved to be subjected to apartheid". I can't think of any other reason because if one is to use apologetic approach to apartheid, then one is supporting a dictatorial regime. Under the Soviet Union, people had jobs and worked, had good schools, and right now, things are bad in Russia. However, I don't hear anyone trying to be an apologist for the Soviet system. Many understand that hard as times are in Russia, the Soviet system could not be done anymore.

I know what I'm talking about because I've done my research on it. I was not taught much about apartheid in school. I do know that under apartheid, Blacks could not vote, Blacks were subjected to a police state. People who have lived in South Africa have told me this. Apartheid was a police state for the Black population. Whites were treated far better than Blacks were under that system. How can one justify that other than believing in the idea of "Blacks are inferior to other races"?
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Old 12-08-2013, 10:20 PM
 
136 posts, read 92,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Probably because they had the power, before them it was the Chinese and so on. Tho please remember the Europeans walked away from Africa in just the last 50 years or so because Africa was a loser mess.
But was there famine and disease throughout Africa before the white man arrived?
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Old 12-08-2013, 10:32 PM
 
44,560 posts, read 43,091,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthisntpretty View Post
Blacks in apartheid South Africa were the most educated and had the highest standard of living on the continent. That's why hundreds of thousands of blacks immigrated to apartheid South Africa.

Just an FYI.
That still doesn't change the fact that Blacks were subjected to a cruel and oppressive regime. It still doesn't change the fact that Blacks could not vote, Blacks could not live wherever they wanted to live, they didn't have the freedoms that White people had. They didn't have the same standard of living that Whites had. And if you want to talk about education, Blacks were given inferior facilities in comparison to Whites. Blacks made up the majority of the population, and yet, were given fewer resources per capita than Whites. Whites had 11 universities reserved for them. Blacks got 3. The "Blacks had the highest standard of living on the continent" does not justify the gross injustices that took place under apartheid, the racial discrimination that took place, the dictatorial nature of apartheid.
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Old 12-08-2013, 10:36 PM
 
136 posts, read 92,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Not in comparison to what Whites had. I'm not talking about what South African Blacks had in comparison to other Africans. I'm talking about Black South Africans in their own land. Blacks were still forcibly moved out of places they had once lived in, and moved into "bantustans".

What I am gathering from your statement is the idea of "Blacks deserved to be subjected to apartheid". I can't think of any other reason because if one is to use apologetic approach to apartheid, then one is supporting a dictatorial regime. Under the Soviet Union, people had jobs and worked, had good schools, and right now, things are bad in Russia. However, I don't hear anyone trying to be an apologist for the Soviet system. Many understand that hard as times are in Russia, the Soviet system could not be done anymore.

I know what I'm talking about because I've done my research on it. I was not taught much about apartheid in school. I do know that under apartheid, Blacks could not vote, Blacks were subjected to a police state. People who have lived in South Africa have told me this. Apartheid was a police state for the Black population. Whites were treated far better than Blacks were under that system. How can one justify that other than believing in the idea of "Blacks are inferior to other races"?
The indigenous Africans actually had to have passes on them at all times and were not allowed to be outside after dusk. Also, Mandela in his book, "Long Walk to Freedom" wrote that if a white person wanted you to do a task for them, they could just approach any random black person and tell them to go to the store and run a certain errand.

Whites also prohibited blacks from forming their own schools, outside of the system that was set up for blacks under "bantu education." Not to mention blacks could not own businesses, and were barred from shopping, living in, or venturing into any land that was declared non bantu territory. Essentially the european minority set up a system which ensured that the indigenous majority would never get ahead.

To make certain that other groups in South Africa didn't work with the blacks, they set up a color system which gave the greatest amount of privileges to Indians and secondly to "coloreds/mixed" people. This helped the Europeans ensure that each group would infight with the other groups (classic case of divide and conquer, which europeans employ throughout the world).

The indigenous Africans could be killed and imprisoned for not accepting orders from europeans.

Obviously, they never intended for the indigenous South Africans to gain control, because all blacks were barred from voting. Essentially, the majority of the population which consisted of over 90% indigenous South Africans were relegated to 5-8% of the most undesirable land, while the handful of english, bantu and afrikaners had full control over the remaining beautiful land, in the most desirable fertile areas.

This is not ancient history. Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, israel and most European "leaders" supported the system of Apartheid. Addidas, Nike, and Reebok were also strong supporters too.

The saddest part is how they made the indigenous Africans less than second class citizens in their own native land. South Africa is one of the richest nations in the world (in terms of its diamond and mineral deposits). All of the wealth and land was stolen by the english, boers and afrikaners.

It's time for the europeans to give back what was stolen.
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Old 12-08-2013, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Los Awesome, CA
8,520 posts, read 4,738,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Probably because they had the power, before them it was the Chinese and so on. Tho please remember the Europeans walked away from Africa in just the last 50 years or so because Africa was a loser mess.
No Packard! The Europeans left Africa because they no longer had the wherewithal to subjugate the people. It would have cost them more they were willing to spend holding the birthplace of mankind!

Get your facts straight!
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Old 12-08-2013, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Los Awesome, CA
8,520 posts, read 4,738,727 times
Reputation: 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthisntpretty View Post
Blacks in apartheid South Africa were the most educated and had the highest standard of living on the continent. That's why hundreds of thousands of blacks immigrated to apartheid South Africa.

Just an FYI.
It's pretty funny how you avoid citing any credible sources! Just saying...
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Old 12-08-2013, 11:39 PM
 
18 posts, read 12,211 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Not in comparison to what Whites had. I'm not talking about what South African Blacks had in comparison to other Africans. I'm talking about Black South Africans in their own land. Blacks were still forcibly moved out of places they had once lived in, and moved into "bantustans".
No they weren't. The 'bantustans' were land in which that particular tribe historically inhabited.

So you admit that Blacks under apartheid were better in comparison to Blacks in other parts of Africa? Which is why so many immigrated to apartheid South Africa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I know what I'm talking about because I've done my research on it. I was not taught much about apartheid in school. I do know that under apartheid, Blacks could not vote, Blacks were subjected to a police state. People who have lived in South Africa have told me this. Apartheid was a police state for the Black population. Whites were treated far better than Blacks were under that system. How can one justify that other than believing in the idea of "Blacks are inferior to other races"?
In what countries in Africa were Blacks allowed to vote? Including ones which Black people were the government.

No, apartheid was a police state for the entire population. Not just Blacks. The more the State fought communism and was subject to civilian bombings by the ANC the more the State began to reduce freedoms and increase control.

The fact remains that if apartheid South Africa was so terrible, why was there so much signifiant Black immigration to it?
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Old 12-08-2013, 11:58 PM
 
18 posts, read 12,211 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
The indigenous Africans actually had to have passes on them at all times and were not allowed to be outside after dusk.
Partly true. They weren't allowed in White areas after dusk. Everyone had to have a pass on them and Whites weren't allowed in Black areas either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
Whites also prohibited blacks from forming their own schools, outside of the system that was set up for blacks under "bantu education."
Not entirely true. The problem is the State was criticized for not providing Blacks an education and then when they did, they were attacked for not allowing it in tribal languages.

The reason for not allowing this is the tribal languages didn't have a written alphabit which obviously made teaching somewhat difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
Not to mention blacks could not own businesses, and were barred from shopping, living in, or venturing into any land that was declared non bantu territory.
This isn't true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
To make certain that other groups in South Africa didn't work with the blacks, they set up a color system which gave the greatest amount of privileges to Indians and secondly to "coloreds/mixed" people.
No, not the reason at all. Blacks were to be citizens of independent bantustans with their own systems of government. Indians and colored did not have independent homelands, obviously.

What countries on the continent did allow Blacks do vote, Claire?

[quote=Claire_Dreams;32541256]
This helped the Europeans ensure that each group would infight with the other groups (classic case of divide and conquer, which europeans employ throughout the world).
[/quote

See above. There was no need to divide and conquer as the tribes had been killing each other for centuries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
The indigenous Africans could be killed and imprisoned for not accepting orders from europeans.
Yeah, ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
Obviously, they never intended for the indigenous South Africans to gain control, because all blacks were barred from voting. Essentially, the majority of the population which consisted of over 90% indigenous South Africans were relegated to 5-8% of the most undesirable land, while the handful of english, bantu and afrikaners had full control over the remaining beautiful land, in the most desirable fertile areas.
Right. Actually, the bantustans were given to the Blacks as they were to be independent and were created in the territory those tribes historically inhabited.

Do you even know what you're talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
This is not ancient history. Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, israel and most European "leaders" supported the system of Apartheid. Addidas, Nike, and Reebok were also strong supporters too.
Much of the support to apartheid South Africa was to stop the spread of communism on the continent. South Africa was engaged in a border war against neighboring countries supported by the Soviet Union.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
The saddest part is how they made the indigenous Africans less than second class citizens in their own native land. South Africa is one of the richest nations in the world (in terms of its diamond and mineral deposits). All of the wealth and land was stolen by the english, boers and afrikaners.
How can you steal things the Blacks didn't even know were there or had any use for? And by the way, what was stolen? What wealth was stolen?

The only reason South Africa became an economic powerhouse was White people. If it wasn't for White people it would be like the rest of Black ran countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
It's time for the europeans to give back what was stolen.
What was stolen?
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