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Old 12-09-2013, 12:03 AM
 
44,662 posts, read 43,162,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthisntpretty View Post
No they weren't. The 'bantustans' were land in which that particular tribe historically inhabited.

So you admit that Blacks under apartheid were better in comparison to Blacks in other parts of Africa? Which is why so many immigrated to apartheid South Africa.
Actually, there were forced removals. Forced removals in the apartheid era | South African History Online

I never said it was "better". I said that whatever you say doesn't justify that apartheid was a dictatorship where Blacks were treated badly. And can you prove that alot of Blacks were trying to immigrate to South Africa during the apartheid era? I haven't seen any proof anywhere.



Quote:
In what countries in Africa were Blacks allowed to vote? Including ones which Black people were the government.
Any nation that was independent, Blacks voted. Suggesting that Black people couldn't vote in other African nations, I have to call crap on that. Show me a nation in Sub-Saharan Africa where Blacks were explicitly prohibited from voting based on their race.

Quote:
No, apartheid was a police state for the entire population. Not just Blacks. The more the State fought communism and was subject to civilian bombings by the ANC the more the State began to reduce freedoms and increase control.
I won't deny that even Whites had some problems. Alan Paton is among them. He wrote a book that basically criticized the regime. His book was banned from South Africa. That being said, Whites could vote. Blacks couldn't vote. Blacks couldn't even be on the streets at certain hours while Whites were allowed that privilege. Whites had far more rights than Blacks did, so in that aspect, Blacks were subjected to a far more rigorous police state than Whites. Whites didn't have to carry a passbook.

Quote:
The fact remains that if apartheid South Africa was so terrible, why was there so much signifiant Black immigration to it?
Can you prove that Blacks were trying to migrate to South Africa in large numbers, to stay? If apartheid "wasn't that bad", then why where there people fighting against it? If it was so great, then why were Blacks given far fewer resources than Whites.

And why is everything else I wrote in the post you replied to being ignored?

And my last question is this. What is the point in taking an apologetic approach to apartheid? Why insist on trying to say "it wasn't that bad", when the injustices done to Blacks under apartheid are quite obvious? What kind of thinking is behind it?
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:09 AM
 
18 posts, read 12,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
But was there famine and disease throughout Africa before the white man arrived?
No of course not. People were living peacefully with each other and developing ways to spread prosperity amongst humanity.

Actually, before Europeans arrived Shaka Zulu was busy developing ways to send man to the moon and developing new technology to prevent the spread of disease and recruited neighboring tribesmen peacefully and requested their assistance with this task.

Things were all roses and honey before the big bad European arrived on the coast and traded slaves with Africans.

It's a shame, literally thousands of years of technology and culture were ruined overnight.

If this had never happened, man may have been on the moon a few hundred years earlier and we would have flying cars. But the White man ruined it all and stole all the Black technology for himself and did not share. No share!
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:15 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,301,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Dreams View Post
But was there famine and disease throughout Africa before the white man arrived?
Uh; there was disease. It was Europeans dying from weird stuff, NOT Black Africans back in the day. I'm 100 percent sure the different tribes in Africa mixed it up too over water, food and so on BEFORE 200 years ago when there were few white people in "Black" Africa.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:18 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,301,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHABAZZ310 View Post
No Packard! The Europeans left Africa because they no longer had the wherewithal to subjugate the people. It would have cost them more they were willing to spend holding the birthplace of mankind!

Get your facts straight!
More like there was NO money to be made; if there WAS money to be made, the Europeans would've stayed on and did what it took, even if it meant killings.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,877 posts, read 4,026,485 times
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South Africa is a corrupt toilet. Apartheid was wrong but that doesn't mean that Mandela was a good leader or the ANC actually knows s**t about how to run a country. When you let corrupt thugs hold the reins of power shockingly your government doesn't run very well.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,877 posts, read 4,026,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZcardinal402 View Post
But to be honest...I think SA will soon parallel Zimbabwe. White farmers are already discriminiated against and they will soon face institutional racism by the ANC, even more than they already do. If I were an Afrikaner...I'd leave for either Botswawna, Namibia, or Europe.
Oh don't let some around here hear you say that...that's just a racist myth! Don't you know that it's whites that are still doing all the oppressing down there? At least I am assured that is the case.
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:03 AM
 
44,662 posts, read 43,162,678 times
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What did Nelson Mandela do for South Africa as President? I recommend read this article: Four Things Nelson
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:07 AM
 
44,662 posts, read 43,162,678 times
Reputation: 14416
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthGAbound12 View Post
South Africa is a corrupt toilet. Apartheid was wrong but that doesn't mean that Mandela was a good leader or the ANC actually knows s**t about how to run a country. When you let corrupt thugs hold the reins of power shockingly your government doesn't run very well.
I recommend reading this: Four Things Nelson

This is what I found in that article:

Quote:
#1.) Mandela cleaned up the country’s monetary policy. Part of the new political paradigm included increasing administrative transparency at many levels. The modernization efforts Mandela oversaw at the South African Reserve Bank helped slash inflation from nearly 9.83 percent the year Mandela took office to 2.24 percent when he retired from office in 1999.

"Under the leadership of Mr. Mandela, South Africa made great strides in improving the overall quality of its institutions, which in turn has had a positive impact on the economy," wrote Shilan Shah, Africa analyst for Captial Economics, in a research note published Friday.

#2.) Mandela did not follow Robert Mugabe’s lead. Zimbabwe went through a similar, complicated transition from minority to majority rule, and many in South Africa advocated following the pattern of land appropriation from white Zimbabweans under Mugabe. Starting just a couple of years before Mandela was elected, President Mugabe began land reforms that took white Zimbabwean farmers’ properties and granted them to political cronies. Mandela faced pressure to follow a similar plan in South Africa. Fortunately, he resisted. Mugabe’s land reform policy destroyed a huge segment of national agricultural productivity, scared away regional and international investment, and sent inflation into four digits.

#3.) Mandela formed an alliance with trade unions that increased worker productivity and lowered unemployment. He oversaw a new relationship between the African National Congress, which he headed in the years before he became president, and the Congress for South African Trade Unions (COSATU). Remember, black South African suffered profound workplace discrimination under the racist policies of apartheid. Mandela worked with the unions to help boost employment opportunities for a segment of the population that needed to have more job opportunities in the new post-apartheid era. While this alliance between the ANC and COSATU is viewed by many as an impediment to jobs growth today, in the early '90s it was absolutely necessary to avoid social unrest linked to economic marginalization of low-wage black South African workers.

#4.) Mandela expressed ideological flexibility by eschewing hard-left economic theory and moving to the center. After Mandela was released from prison in 1990, his economic views were more closely aligned with those in Cuba and Venezuela today: heavy control of commercial activity by the state and complete state control over key industries. By 1994, Mandela was a Keynesian, rolling out the welcome mat to foreign investment while tightly directing industrial activity. Had Mandela held out on his earlier, more radical views, investment would have gone elsewhere. Mandela’s relaxing of his earlier stance on economics helped bring investment back to the country that had fled (or was forced to flee) during apartheid.
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,877 posts, read 4,026,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I recommend reading this: Four Things Nelson

This is what I found in that article:
Yet where is South Africa today. That article makes it seem like some productive giant when that is not reality.
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:04 AM
 
861 posts, read 941,082 times
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Quote:
This is not ancient history. Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, israel and most European "leaders" supported the system of Apartheid. Addidas, Nike, and Reebok were also strong supporters too.
Interesting facts!
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