U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 12-06-2013, 06:07 PM
 
4,707 posts, read 3,363,431 times
Reputation: 4412

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0618 View Post
Very true! The problem with lying is once you start you need to keep doing it to cover for the previous lies. Its a death spiral of lies.
Unfortunately, that's exactly what happens. It's the old adage of "Oh what a tangled web we weave/When first we practice to deceive."

Sadly, for Obama, lying has become part of his fabric, and defines him at his core. It would impossible for him to attempt to come clean, because the deception is deep with him.

 
Old 12-06-2013, 07:31 PM
 
23,956 posts, read 16,168,099 times
Reputation: 8900
The right wing self-serving represenatives like Ted Cruz are the liars people. Deal with it. They knew full well that they would never be able to repeal The ACA and played the right wing base like a fiddle. Yes. you've been played, as the these do nothing GOP Congressman collected a salary and too many vacation days for being the least productive Congress in the nation's history. Those are the tax dollars you should be whining about.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 07:34 PM
 
10,917 posts, read 5,164,833 times
Reputation: 6190
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Don't have to repeal it; just defund it.

Same effect.
The entire "Defund it" argument was always a crock. I'm very familiar with Ted Cruz and his history. He is a very smart cookie - there is no way that I believe he really thought there was a way to "Defund it" ……. a Trillion dollars worth of funding and new Taxes are built into ObamaCare. So what was Cruz really doing? I think it was a Populist political move to raise his profile with the American public.

The "Shutdown" had ZERO to do with the Cruz "Defund" …… the Shutdown was all about the "Delay", which of course, we now have. "Defund" was a ploy for those who really have no clue about the complexity of the ACA and it's sister reconciliation law called Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 which passed a couple of days after the ACA and amended it. Cruz would know all this - he is one of the top Constitutional Lawyers in the USA. He took a page out of the Obama Playbook and was going after the Low Information voters just to raise his profile. Everyone is going to remember that it was Ted Cruz that tried to stop the Debacle of ObamaCare …… that was his real point. I don't (and didn't agree with it), but there is just no other answer. ObamaCare can't be defunded - HHS can be defunded so they can't funnel extra money to Dem groups of "Navigators" - but the ACA is not "Defundable".

As for the point of the OP of this thread ……. YES, I do think the Republicans have reached the consensus of letting Obama and the Democrats stew in their own juices and enjoy the Debacle. Not all of them agree with this - I applaud those that care more for the harm this law will do than the Political gain from watching the Democrats implode.

At the end of the day ……. this should ALL be about what is best for the citizens of this country - Democrats are in a Double Down position with "Hope" that it will magically all work out. The majority of the Republicans are rubbing their hand with Glee, content with the knowledge that this is a total Disaster ……… a very few (on both sides of the aisle) are still focused on the American Public.

What most of the posters here are totally missing is that the Congress (both House/Senate & Dems/GOP) are now focused on a "new" Crusade. We are facing another "shutdown" and a Budget that needs a decision by next Friday. None of them are worried or even care at this point about the ObamaCare Debacle/Scandal - they are in a Battle over the Budget with arguments about New Taxes (which will not happen), New Un-Employment extensions (for the 5th time), the Sequester Mandates (already passed in 2011) and Spending Cuts and Spending increases.

ObamaCare and it's (almost sure) Failures will be re-visited and very obvious after January 1, 2014 when people find they are Un-Insured - the CongressCritters have bigger fish to fry right now.

John Boehner said today that the House adjourns next Friday ….. Period.
Budget agreement or not …… Period.
Boehner reminder the press that they should know by now that "I say what I mean, and mean what I say". Our President cannot say the same.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 07:57 PM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,115,036 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
That will not stop the 24/7 lies, misinformation and propaganda machine from pumping out the BS, but the right wing will have to find something else to rant about. Maybe revive BENGHAZI or the IRS non- scandal.
When it comes to public policy discussions, conservatives are nearly always wrong, and nearly always lying or making stuff up or off into fantasyland.

conservatives are good at winning off year low voter turnout elections, creating wedge issues, parroting the talking points of the rich and powerful, getting the media to pretend they aren't insane, and pumping that fear into a lot of Americans, but public policy is something they no longer are interested in pursuing.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:12 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,418,562 times
Reputation: 17990
I don't see nay serious movement to repeal Obamcare. What I see is changes coming and that means a shift to who is subsidized by now much. Changes happen all the time in programs.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Laurentia
5,569 posts, read 6,097,019 times
Reputation: 2360
I think anyone that writes the obituary of the Obamacare repeal movement at a time when repeal is more popular than ever according to the polls as people are finding out more about it must be disconnected from reality. It would be closer to the mark for a supporter to write "Crusade will be dead soon", which is the best any supporter of it can hope for, but I think the chances for even that scenario to happen are negligible.

As for the merits of the law itself, I'll just say that the horrors of it are well-documented, especially for poor people who cannot afford these skyrocketing premiums (that they are being forced to purchase BTW) without being forced onto welfare or lowering their standard of living, for minorities who tend to be poorer and who oftentimes had affordable insurance that they liked that does not meet Sibelius's personal preferences, and for the sick and the weak who will have their "phoney insurance" taken away from them when they are depending on that so-called crappy policy to pay for their medical treatments, which could mean the difference between life and death for some. However, helping cancer patients is not something Harry Reid is interested in doing - the party of compassion has turned into the party of "they don't matter". Democrats like Harry Reid have no compunctions whatsoever about killing every sick, weak, and indigent person in the country if they think it would give them an edge over their political enemies and strengthen their own power. And this doesn't even get into the 29 hours vs. 40 hours bit, or the manifold nightmare of implementing the monstrosity.

In short, Obamacare must go. Whether an alternative plan* exists or not is irrelevant; Obamacare is causing a net harm of great magnitude to the people of this country, and it is imperative to remove a harmful law.

*Many alternative ideas and plans actually do exist, but it is also true that Republicans do not have one unified plan that they unanimously support. The Democrats didn't have one either in 2008 - if they took off the blue-colored glasses for a while they would know that a party typically floats ideas and then weaves them into a coherent plan after the people like those ideas and elect them. Now, I actually think it would be better to have a lot of bills and executive orders pre-written so that they can be passed and signed upon Inauguration, but there is nothing wrong or abnormal about the more usual approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
[...] but public policy is something they [conservatives] no longer are interested in pursuing.
Huh? Whether you agree with the plans or not (which I don't, by the way), Paul Ryan is very interested in pursuing public policy, and so are quite a few other conservatives. The Republicans have their fair share of policy wonks - not as many as the Democrats, mind you, but conservatives are as interested in what sort of public policy the federal government pursues as any other political faction.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:25 PM
 
19,814 posts, read 8,092,821 times
Reputation: 6602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
I think anyone that writes the obituary of the Obamacare repeal movement at a time when repeal is more popular than ever according to the polls as people are finding out more about it must be disconnected from reality. It would be closer to the mark for a supporter to write "Crusade will be dead soon", which is the best any supporter of it can hope for, but I think the chances for even that scenario to happen are negligible.

As for the merits of the law itself, I'll just say that the horrors of it are well-documented, especially for poor people who cannot afford these skyrocketing premiums (that they are being forced to purchase BTW) without being forced onto welfare or lowering their standard of living, for minorities who tend to be poorer and who oftentimes had affordable insurance that they liked that does not meet Sibelius's personal preferences, and for the sick and the weak who will have their "phoney insurance" taken away from them when they are depending on that so-called crappy policy to pay for their medical treatments, which could mean the difference between life and death for some. However, helping cancer patients is not something Harry Reid is interested in doing - the party of compassion has turned into the party of "they don't matter". Democrats like Harry Reid have no compunctions whatsoever about killing every sick, weak, and indigent person in the country if they think it would give them an edge over their political enemies and strengthen their own power. And this doesn't even get into the 29 hours vs. 40 hours bit, or the manifold nightmare of implementing the monstrosity.

In short, Obamacare must go. Whether an alternative plan* exists or not is irrelevant; Obamacare is causing a net harm of great magnitude to the people of this country, and it is imperative to remove a harmful law.

*Many alternative ideas and plans actually do exist, but it is also true that Republicans do not have one unified plan that they unanimously support. The Democrats didn't have one either in 2008 - if they took off the blue-colored glasses for a while they would know that a party typically floats ideas and then weaves them into a coherent plan after the people like those ideas and elect them. Now, I actually think it would be better to have a lot of bills and executive orders pre-written so that they can be passed and signed upon Inauguration, but there is nothing wrong or abnormal about the more usual approach.
But it's not going anywhere. It's already benefited to many people. So if you take away the ACA then you are taking away insurance from many including those that have been denied for pre existing conditions. If you don't want the ACA then you come up with another alternative for these people. And yes, it is relevant.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:29 PM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,115,036 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post

Huh? Whether you agree with the plans or not (which I don't, by the way), Paul Ryan is very interested in pursuing public policy, and so are quite a few other conservatives. The Republicans have their fair share of policy wonks - not as many as the Democrats, mind you, but conservatives are as interested in what sort of public policy the federal government pursues as any other political faction.
This is fantasy world again. Paul Ryan has passed two pieces of legislation into law. If one is interested in public policy that doesn't happen.

conservatives have no plans for anything at all and there isn't a single public policy issue that they are working on not one.

Outside of tax cuts for rich people, more military spending, cutting programs that help groups of Americans conservative voters hate, anti-homosexual, anti-abortion, some voter suppression laws, anti-immigration, anti-sharia law, this is all conservatives have been doing, oh and hating everything President Obama.

That's it.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:29 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,136 posts, read 21,231,238 times
Reputation: 23168
Are all Obama supporters jerks or just the ones on this forum.

You set about a process that unless it is stopped will destroy this nation and then brag about it. Have you no shame? Evidently not!
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:32 PM
Status: "Get ready for some Christmas shopping." (set 5 hours ago)
 
Location: Suburban Dallas
44,453 posts, read 35,553,425 times
Reputation: 27339
Darth Barry is losing much of his base, and leftists won't even have the balls to admit it. People are seeing right through him now. The crusade by the American people will not go away until this stupid law and its associated clever disguise are both gone from us. In the end, nobody will want government-run health care. Nobody.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top