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Old 12-10-2013, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,097,852 times
Reputation: 7875

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
My poll about minimum tip rates now stands at 41-5, so 89% oppose any minimum tip rate.

I find it fascinating that people can see why a minimum tip rate would be a bad idea, but not a minimum wage.

tipped workers: would you favor legislation to establish minimum tip levels?
Because they are two separate things...though in this country they are the same thing and people don't realize that servers get paid below minimum wage in many states yet taxed on projected tips, not actual tips.
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Old 12-10-2013, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,321,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Because they are two separate things...though in this country they are the same thing and people don't realize that servers get paid below minimum wage in many states yet taxed on projected tips, not actual tips.

How is it two separate things? Both are compensation for services rendered. How is it that a minimum tip rate is harmful, while a minimum wage rate is beneficial?
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Old 12-10-2013, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,666 posts, read 23,982,865 times
Reputation: 14995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
The federal minimum wage should be repealed. Congress does not have the constitutional authority to establish a minimum wage, a maximum wage, or wages of any kind. If States want to establish a minimum wage, they have that constitutional authority. Whereas the federal government does not.

Considering that all 50 States already have an established minimum wage, and most of those States are higher than the federal minimum wage, a repeal of the federal minimum wage will have absolutely no effect except to bring the federal government one tiny step closer to being in compliance with the US Constitution.
Post of the day. (It doesn't matter that it was a few days ago )
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Old 12-10-2013, 02:36 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,429,306 times
Reputation: 4241
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
How is it two separate things? Both are compensation for services rendered. How is it that a minimum tip rate is harmful, while a minimum wage rate is beneficial?
They don't want to have to tip because that would be digging into THEIR wallets.
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Old 12-10-2013, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,711,133 times
Reputation: 6593
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Joe Barton A GOD representative calls for the repeal of the minimum wage.
I had no idea that there was a "God" party. Interesting to know.

Quote:
GOP Rep. Joe Barton Calls For Minimum Wage Repeal

How many people think that this would end well at all? Am I the only one that finds this appalling? That he could be so out of touch with the people who he represents?

What do people here that support this think would happen if it were to pass?
This is where the Republican Party fails miserably. They seem to believe that Laissez Faire capitalism is a fine idea. It is true that the federal government has massively over involved themselves in how businesses in this country do what they do. It is probably true the things like minimum wage should get sorted out at the state government level. But the truth of the matter is, the most "conservative" of the GOP want to eliminate minimum wage entirely. That's just a terrible idea.

Look at what we have today. Corporations are seeing record profits while the Labor Participation Rate has dipped lower than we've seen since 1978 -- dropping below 63% in October.

Labor Force Participation Rate
Age: 16 years and over


The median household income looks like this:



The average American isn't seeing a recovery because the top 1% isn't bothering to pass along their own good fortune to the workers under them. Clearly they cannot be trusted to do the right thing just because it is the right thing. Trickle-Down Economics doesn't generally trickle on its own because human beings are greedy by nature.

When the imbalance between the rich and poor continues to grow and grow like we are seeing happen, Laissez Faire capitalism does have a natural remedy. Bloody revolution. Eliminating minimum wage altogether would hasten towards bloody revolution. We're already gradually heading that direction anyways. How does throwing gasoline on the fire ever become a good idea???
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,321,941 times
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According to your graph the labor participation rate took a dive after 2008. And that is the fault of the GOP? Who know that Pres. Obama is secretly a Republican? Learn something new every day.
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:17 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,388,296 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
It's actually not an strawman argument. It's not even an argument--t's a question. If we can make people off by fiat declaration, why not go a little further and make them even better off? Why stop at $7.25 or even $15? Why? It's not an argument, just a question, and apparently one that you can't answer.

Setting a minimum wage is a balancing act, not a money grab. A minimum wage that does not keep up wit inflation gives workers a wage cut over time and a minimum wage that outpaces inflation redistributes income from consumers and employers to workers. Keeping it even with inflation sounds generally about right.
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:20 PM
 
34,274 posts, read 19,312,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
How does throwing gasoline on the fire ever become a good idea???
In a way...I almost wish they would get some of their more extreme ideas passed. Remember when a bunch of Democrats voted present and the Republicans had to suddenly vote down on of their own bills? We need some more of that. Let them put their name on something like this, get it passed by the Democrats voting present....and having them beg Obama to save them by vetoing it.

It becomes a good idea when the alternative is incredibly long and painful and slow.
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,856 posts, read 8,179,887 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
The average American isn't seeing a recovery because the top 1% isn't bothering to pass along their own good fortune to the workers under them. Clearly they cannot be trusted to do the right thing just because it is the right thing. Trickle-Down Economics doesn't generally trickle on its own because human beings are greedy by nature.

When the imbalance between the rich and poor continues to grow and grow like we are seeing happen, Laissez Faire capitalism does have a natural remedy. Bloody revolution. Eliminating minimum wage altogether would hasten towards bloody revolution. We're already gradually heading that direction anyways. How does throwing gasoline on the fire ever become a good idea???

The problem is that, the minimum wage went up significantly in what, 2007-2008? And it made absolutely no difference whatsoever on the relative gap between rich and poor. If the minimum wage was to go up again, it would also make no difference whatsoever on the relative gap between rich and poor.


Which is what I've been trying to say. At best the minimum wage accomplishes absolutely nothing. And at worst, it is incredibly destructive. The reality of the minimum wage, is that it exists because good people are trying to help. The problem is that these people have no concept of how the minimum wage actually plays out in reality.


The idea behind the minimum wage. Is that by raising the minimum wage, you will make the poor wealthier. But for that to be true, that wealth needs to come from somewhere, or from someone else. The problem is that it is simply not true, that if you raise the minimum wage of the poor. That it takes from the rich.


The problem is that, businesses set prices. And if their costs go up, so do their prices. And as wages at the bottom go up, so do wages go up across the board.


Thus as I said. If you wanted to actually create more pay equity. The minimum wage is a complete waste of time. You would also need to set "maximum wages/compensation". Or at the very least be able to set prices.



The perfect example of this is professional athletes. Their wages have gone up far faster than inflation. Why?

Would raising the minimum wage force professional sports franchises to pay their athletes less? Would there be any real effect on the relative pay gap between professional athletes and unskilled workers?



If you want to fix the system. Then you must actually design a system that works.
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,097,852 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
How is it two separate things? Both are compensation for services rendered. How is it that a minimum tip rate is harmful, while a minimum wage rate is beneficial?
I never said a minimum tip rate was harmful. The way the US relies on tips as a wage in this country, 15% should be added to any bill with a line for you to tip over 15% if you choose.
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