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Sigh, for the millionth time, I'm not a conservative.
As for the rest of your post, you claim that people want insurance. No, they don't. They want affordable health care. The ACA does nothing to provide affordable health care. Technically, it doesn't even provide affordable health insurance, as the actual premiums will still be expensive and merely offset in some cases by subsidies. Sure, it will be more affordable for some, but only because the ACA is siphoning money out of the middle class in order to make it that way.
Approach the question with a bit of logic. Where does the money end up? It doesn't end up with the poor, nor with the majority of the middle class. It ends up with the shareholders and executives of hospitals, insurance companies, and pharmaceuticals. These are people who are already at or near the top of the economic ladder. It is, in fact, wealth redistribution from the bottom to the top, and you've fallen for it hook, line, and sinker.
Discretionary Income:
Money spent by consumers on non-essential purchases such as vacations or luxury items. Discretionary income represents the amount of income remaining after a person pays for personal necessities and taxes.
Health insurance has now become a necessity thanks to the ACA. Or a tax, depending on who you listen to.
Considering that health insurance premiums are, on average, increasing by 41%, this means that middle class wage earners will have less money for discretionary spending.
Oh so you are in favor of giving poor people money and letting them decide how to spend it?
I would wholeheartedly support that idea, but sadly because we don't want "welfare" giving poor people money directly and letting them spend it has fallen out of favor, so instead we decided to provide services to poor people so they wouldn't abuse the system.
So that means food stamps goes to big companies like walmart. Medicaid goes to doctors, hospitals. Healthcare subsidizes go to insurance companies both employer and now these exchanges.
But you are wrong, the wealth redistribution in the ACA is from wealthy Americans to poor Americans. This is objective reality.
You are absolutely 100% correct people do want affordable healthcare and they would 100% prefer that over affordable health insurance.
So far in the real world, the way societies have made healthcare affordable is single payer healthcare where the government controls the costs of healthcare and they spend far less than we do as a nation and end up insuring every citizen.
Outside of that kind of direct government control, and given the long standing trend of skyrocketing healthcare costs in America, the manner in which America has tried to make healthcare affordable is by subsidizing employer provided health insurance plans, single payer for the elderly, the disabled, and poor people. That hasn't worked to control costs as well.
In fact, more and more employers aren't offering insurance which is creating larger groups of uninsured Americans who can't afford healthcare because the costs of healthcare have been skyrocketing for decades.
The health insurance in most of the states for Americans of modest incomes(which is most Americans) is affordable.
Also, since the enactment of the ACA the rate of the growth in healthcare costs has slowed, it is not certain if this is the result of the new law, but the rate of growth in healthcare costs has slowed down since the enactment of the ACA.
I disagree that discretionary spending will take a hit because people who want health insurance will get it.
Well, if you consider that slavery was taking people and forcing them to do things against their free will under threat of punishment then it's quite comparable. Or am I missing something with respect to the ACA?
I was forced to go to school as a kid against my free will under threat of punishment. It was just like slavery. Or am I missing something with respect to going to school.
I was forced to go to school as a kid against my free will under threat of punishment. It was just like slavery. Or am I missing something with respect to going to school.
Parents vs the government. Your parents could have let you stay home to drive them crazy!
He's not been proven right or wrong yet, let's not jump to conclusions. At least wait until the "ACA" is actually up and working when and if that ever happens.
Who hasn't been proven right or wrong? What are you talking about?
The ACA is getting up and running, more and more people are signing up. Now that the website is fixed at least for consumers in the first 3 days after Dec. 1st 55,000 people signed up to buy insurance on the federal website.
Who hasn't been proven right or wrong? What are you talking about?
The ACA is getting up and running, more and more people are signing up. Now that the website is fixed at least for consumers in the first 3 days after Dec. 1st 55,000 people signed up to buy insurance on the federal website.
I find that people relying on right wing bubble world media have to be brought up to speed very often. Tedious isn't it?
Oh so you are in favor of giving poor people money and letting them decide how to spend it?
I would wholeheartedly support that idea, but sadly because we don't want "welfare" giving poor people money directly and letting them spend it has fallen out of favor, so instead we decided to provide services to poor people so they wouldn't abuse the system.
So that means food stamps goes to big companies like walmart. Medicaid goes to doctors, hospitals. Healthcare subsidizes go to insurance companies both employer and now these exchanges.
But you are wrong, the wealth redistribution in the ACA is from wealthy Americans to poor Americans. This is objective reality.
You are absolutely 100% correct people do want affordable healthcare and they would 100% prefer that over affordable health insurance.
So far in the real world, the way societies have made healthcare affordable is single payer healthcare where the government controls the costs of healthcare and they spend far less than we do as a nation and end up insuring every citizen.
Outside of that kind of direct government control, and given the long standing trend of skyrocketing healthcare costs in America, the manner in which America has tried to make healthcare affordable is by subsidizing employer provided health insurance plans, single payer for the elderly, the disabled, and poor people. That hasn't worked to control costs as well.
In fact, more and more employers aren't offering insurance which is creating larger groups of uninsured Americans who can't afford healthcare because the costs of healthcare have been skyrocketing for decades.
The health insurance in most of the states for Americans of modest incomes(which is most Americans) is affordable.
Also, since the enactment of the ACA the rate of the growth in healthcare costs has slowed, it is not certain if this is the result of the new law, but the rate of growth in healthcare costs has slowed down since the enactment of the ACA.
I disagree that discretionary spending will take a hit because people who want health insurance will get it.
For a brief moment, we were almost in agreement on something. And then you wrote this:
Quote:
I disagree that discretionary spending will take a hit because people who want health insurance will get it.
It isn't people who want health insurance that will be the problem. It's the people who are being forced to buy it, whether they want to or not.
Out of curiosity, did you know that one of the main contributors to the rise in health care costs - just like in most areas of the economy - is government involvement in private business? Expecting government involvement to make anything more affordable overall fits the definition of insanity.
Quote:
The health insurance in most of the states for Americans of modest incomes(which is most Americans) is affordable.
No, it was affordable. Now premiums are going up on average 41% across the nation. What part of that are you not getting?
[quote=Iamme]"So far in the real world, the way societies have made healthcare affordable is single payer healthcare where the government controls the costs of healthcare and they spend far less than we do as a nation and end up insuring every citizen."
So why not expand Medicaid rather than destroy the system for the entire nation? Obama did it because, like you, he wants a single payer system. Like you, he has no idea how that will work without bankrupting the country, but hey, his intentions are good.
Considering employers, doctors, patients don't know the repercussions of Obamacare yet, your question is premature. Ocare will not be up and running for individual patient care for at least another month. We don't even know if enough people will sign up for the economics to work per Obama's plan. The impact of the law on employer provided health insurance won't be felt for another year. How the ACA impacts employment, patient care, the economy, is still up in the air.
It only takes a slight bit of economic understanding to know the effects.
Increased costs.
Economic downturn
Decreased care quality
Higher levels of uninsured.
These can be considered fact, as there is absolutely NO possibility they will not be true.
Who hasn't been proven right or wrong? What are you talking about?
The ACA is getting up and running, more and more people are signing up. Now that the website is fixed at least for consumers in the first 3 days after Dec. 1st 55,000 people signed up to buy insurance on the federal website.
So, is it up and running or "getting up and running"? While the front end is mostly working the back end most certainly is NOT so, if the information is not getting from keyboard to insurance company correctly then it's NOT working yet.
10% failure rate is NOT working yet.
If people are signing up and told they are insured only to find out that due to glitches they're not AND they're not told they didn't actually get signed up (no, you only find that out on your own) it's not working.
How about waiting until ALL the parts are actually in force like the employer mandates then see how things are?
Wayyyyy to early to start crowing about how great things are.
Let me ask you this last question, if you get into your car, turn the key and the motor starts but you're transmission won't engage is your car working or is it broken??
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Or am I missing something with respect to going to school.
While the front end is mostly working the back end most certainly is NOT so, if the information is not getting from keyboard to insurance company correctly then it's NOT working yet.
