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Old 12-07-2013, 11:27 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
11,059 posts, read 6,467,040 times
Reputation: 10682

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer View Post
Freedom of religion does not mean one has freedom to discriminate using ones religion. The business owner decided to interject their religion into their business where it does not belong. This whole thing is stupid as all the rest are, religion does not mean one is not subject to law.
I'm not sure why not though, you have a constitutional right to observe your religion, but not a constitutional right to be free of discrimination from a private business.

 
Old 12-07-2013, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
3,401 posts, read 1,914,625 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
Why? The US Constitution guarantees freedom of and from religion. If I form a sole proprietorship, why shouldn't the US Constitution trump some local law?
If it guarantees freedom from religion, then no one wanting to buy your wares ought to be refused on account of your religious views; they won't be free of the consequences of you believing whatever it is you do.

But that's irrelevant. Nothing about owning a store involves religion. Being sole proprietor of a business isn't a religious act, regulating such does not affect your freedom of religion in any way, or indeed address your religious beliefs at all. Freedom of religion does not mean society is obliged to create a bubble around you in which you don't have to deal with anything that offends your religious sensibilities.

Incidentally, should anti-discrimination laws apply to someone who isn't religious but just think gay people are icky? Or should pointing to a bible as the cause of their . . . distaste place religious people above the law.
 
Old 12-07-2013, 11:53 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
11,059 posts, read 6,467,040 times
Reputation: 10682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
If it guarantees freedom from religion, then no one wanting to buy your wares ought to be refused on account of your religious views; they won't be free of the consequences of you believing whatever it is you do.

But that's irrelevant. Nothing about owning a store involves religion. Being sole proprietor of a business isn't a religious act, regulating such does not affect your freedom of religion in any way, or indeed address your religious beliefs at all. Freedom of religion does not mean society is obliged to create a bubble around you in which you don't have to deal with anything that offends your religious sensibilities.

Incidentally, should anti-discrimination laws apply to someone who isn't religious but just think gay people are icky? Or should pointing to a bible as the cause of their . . . distaste place religious people above the law.
You are correct, freedom from religion is irrelevant because the government is not imposing a religion on you; the constitution protects you against government action. As such, the constitution protects the sole proprietor against being forced to serve a person who does not adhere to his or her religions views. Thus, the first amendment does, in fact, trump any state law in this regard. And I do think it is telling that a sole proprietor is being attacked (if that is in fact the case) because a sole propriety business would have a more centralized religious belief than, say, a couple hundred shareholders, of which one could not dissipher a cognizant religious goal.
 
Old 12-08-2013, 12:03 AM
 
544 posts, read 520,399 times
Reputation: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaykibs View Post
Of course it does. Federally, I cannot turn anyone away from a business due to their religious beliefs, gender, race, etc. Nor can they turn me away for being gay in some states, but not federally. Colorado is one of those states. We all benefit from anti-discrimination law.
I hope they spit in the cake! Aw, I know they won't since they are good Christians. However, why would you force someone to do a BUSINESS TRANSACTION with you? WTF? This is almost as crazy as saying that everyone has to buy a product.

Can't wait till these two clowns get divorced and/or end up in the mental ward.

And no, I'm not against gays at all. I just am really against anti-freedom idiots.
 
Old 12-08-2013, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,087 posts, read 11,982,733 times
Reputation: 9714
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHarley View Post
I hope they spit in the cake! Aw, I know they won't since they are good Christians. However, why would you force someone to do a BUSINESS TRANSACTION with you? WTF? This is almost as crazy as saying that everyone has to buy a product.

Can't wait till these two clowns get divorced and/or end up in the mental ward.

And no, I'm not against gays at all. I just am really against anti-freedom idiots.
Lovely.
So far, the good Christians here have suggested that the bakers ruin the cake, spit in it, take a dump in it, and express their glee at the thought of a couple divorcing or suffering from mental illness.

...and your imaginary and sanctimonious "morals" forbid you from baking a cake for a couple you disapprove of.

Last edited by weltschmerz; 12-08-2013 at 01:18 AM..
 
Old 12-08-2013, 01:56 AM
 
Location: California
30,542 posts, read 33,365,250 times
Reputation: 26014
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
Lovely.
So far, the good Christians here have suggested that the bakers ruin the cake, spit in it, take a dump in it, and express their glee at the thought of a couple divorcing or suffering from mental illness.

...and your imaginary and sanctimonious "morals" forbid you from baking a cake for a couple you disapprove of.
Isn't it a hoot? This is why nobody takes Christianity seriously.
 
Old 12-08-2013, 03:02 AM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,087 posts, read 11,982,733 times
Reputation: 9714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
Isn't it a hoot? This is why nobody takes Christianity seriously.
There was another thread on the same subject recently. One fine Christian gentleman suggested putting poison in the cake.

Jesus wept.
 
Old 12-08-2013, 04:18 AM
 
8 posts, read 5,163 times
Reputation: 19
Well, isn't that lovely. So instead of just being adults, we get Unca Govt to make the mean men be nice? That sure makes me feel positively wonderful about gay folks.

And Christians are right to be wary of gay folks. Gay men have been shown, even in today's accepting world, to be frequently depressed, promiscuous, and drug-using, to the point that AIDS levels are actually rising again. Pride parades used to be attended quite openly by NAMBLA folks, and their are still many problems within the gay community with "chickenhawks" who pursue underage men for casual sex.

On the other side, children of lesbian couples tend to be more depressed, work full-time at less than half the rate of others, and are more likely to engage in self I destructive behavior than children of straights.

That said, bone whomever you like, but please don't pretend gay people are perfect, their attitudes need as much work as the Christians who can't tolerate them.

Last edited by DearAbby; 12-08-2013 at 04:20 AM.. Reason: Grammar and spelling mistakes
 
Old 12-08-2013, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Somewhere Out West
2,260 posts, read 2,132,976 times
Reputation: 1902
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory View Post
I was married when younger to a woman I loved dearly - what the hell kind of marriage involves wife owning and raping?
Here let Betty Bowers explain it to you.


Betty Bowers Explains Traditional Marriage to Everyone Else - YouTube
 
Old 12-08-2013, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,724 posts, read 83,345,493 times
Reputation: 41564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Roma View Post
I don't care where you stand on gay rights. This is absolutely ridiculous and just flat out wrong. The business owner's rights are now being violated in the name of PC.




Judge orders Colo. cake-maker to serve gay couples - seattlepi.com
My take: the bride and groom have every right to want their wedding cake, if it were me, I would have just gone to another bakery: But to even think of taking action is way over the top. Do I think the baker was right? No, do I think the judge was right? Hell NO. The guy owns his business, it is not a government run business, though libs would like everything run by the government, and the owner has every right to decide who he wants to do business with.

Maybe it is just me, but I think, when someone does something like, reacting like the couple did over this and making a big deal out of it, only hurts their cause.
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