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Old 12-11-2013, 06:48 PM
 
2,951 posts, read 2,005,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Then why did people use their religious beliefs to try to deny services to blacks?
proof

Quote:
YOU may not agree with their religious beliefs, but if YOU are allowed to break the law based on your religious beliefs, then everyone is.
you never answered my question give me 1 theoretical law that would be unconstitutional according to your interpretation of the free exercise clause

Quote:
I'm already working on starting my own religion. No laws will ever stand in my way again. I mean the first amendment and all.
the definition of the word religion would mean you would have to believe in god

 
Old 12-11-2013, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Wilsonville, OR
1,262 posts, read 1,860,139 times
Reputation: 2320
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Jew View Post
the definition of the word religion would mean you would have to believe in god
Wrong.
 
Old 12-11-2013, 06:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
But isn't any helping of a sinner helping the sinner sin?
if your not smart enough (even if you choose to be) to understand what this baker never discrimnated against homosexuals.

You will not understand why giving food is not helping someone sin
 
Old 12-11-2013, 06:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Then don't sell wedding cakes. Sell bagels, and muffing, and birthday cakes. There are many baked goods to choose from. If YOUR religious beliefs prevent you from following the laws related to doing business, then you have a CHOICE to make. No banning involved. I do not know of any laws that say what a business MUST use or sell, but only what they can not use or sell. Please name one.
whether it's true or not the principle is the same

let's say the New York would make a law that requires all bakeries to use lard (not kosher)
would Orthodox Jewish bakeries have to follow that law?
 
Old 12-11-2013, 07:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Yes. Bisexual is a sexual orientation. The issue was making a cake for a GAY wedding. GAY is a sexual orientation.

I'm sorry that you don't agree with the law, but even religious people have to follow the law. If we made exceptions for religious beliefs, then no law would ever be able to be enforced.
no one is being discriminated against based on sexual orientation

let me try this again
Lucas says he's bisexual
Titus says he's bisexual
Mary says she's bisexual
Elizabeth says she's bisexual

Lucas and Titus come in to buy a wedding cake
Mary and Elizabeth come in to buy a wedding cake
If they are coming for a real wedding I sell it to them, if the are coming in for a same gender "wedding" I don't sell it to them.

no person is being discriminated against based on sexual orientation.


this is not that hard to figure out.
 
Old 12-11-2013, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,274 posts, read 10,366,771 times
Reputation: 7937
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Jew View Post
proof


you never answered my question give me 1 theoretical law that would be unconstitutional according to your interpretation of the free exercise clause


the definition of the word religion would mean you would have to believe in god
Quote:
This month (June, 2007) we celebrate the 40th anniversary of Loving v. Virginia, the landmark civil rights case that struck down laws forbidding interracial marriage. Here is what the judge in the state case wrote:

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix. " -- Statement by Virginia trial judge in 1959 case that led to 1967 U.S. Supreme Court striking down laws in 16 states that prohibited interracial marriage.

Incredibly, this judge was invoking the same prejudiced understanding of God, nature, and social order to make his ruling. And this was nearly a hundred years after the lessons of slavery!
There are many more at this link.
Would Jesus Discriminate? - History Lessons

As for a religion having to have a god, fine the monkey living under the shed is now officially my god, and he says that I don;t have to follow any laws I don't like.

I can prove my gods existence just as well as you can prove yours.
 
Old 12-11-2013, 07:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Nope. that is not what the law says, and many religious people have no issue with selling wedding related items to homosexuals.
then their not religious no matter what they say.


selling a cake for a gay "wedding" is worse then murder
 
Old 12-11-2013, 07:04 PM
 
2,951 posts, read 2,005,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
That is true. That why anti-discrimination law address buyers, not what buyers intend to use the products for. The event or use is irrelevant.
you finally got it this

which is why this baker did NOT discriminate because he only cared about WHAT the product was being used for, not WHO was buying it.
 
Old 12-11-2013, 07:10 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 11,117,975 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Jew View Post
no one is being discriminated against based on sexual orientation

let me try this again
Lucas says he's bisexual
Titus says he's bisexual
Mary says she's bisexual
Elizabeth says she's bisexual

Lucas and Titus come in to buy a wedding cake
Mary and Elizabeth come in to buy a wedding cake
If they are coming for a real wedding I sell it to them, if the are coming in for a same gender "wedding" I don't sell it to them.

no person is being discriminated against based on sexual orientation.


this is not that hard to figure out.
And it's not hard at all to see how this argument is specious.

If we were to buy what you're selling, then there is no such thing as discrimination at all. You can always just say the reason you didn't sell/provide the service was based on what you thought it would be used for, not because of the characteristic of the buyer.

I can do it too:

Your honor, my refusal to sell Black Jim the wrench wasn't because he's black, it's that he told me black people would use the wrench. If White Bill were buying a wrench for black people to use, I wouldn't sell it to White Bill either. See - no person was discriminated against because of race.
 
Old 12-11-2013, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Wilsonville, OR
1,262 posts, read 1,860,139 times
Reputation: 2320
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Jew View Post
then their not religious no matter what they say.


selling a cake for a gay "wedding" is worse then murder
Selling a cake to celebrate the love and future of a happy couple is worse than ending the life of a sentient being, a being that was utterly unique in all the universe and will never again have a chance to exist?

I think you are probably the most disturbing person I've ever seen on this forum. I am genuinely concerned about your state of mind. Please, please seek psychological help. You need it. I truly mean this, I am not trying to insult you or put you down or get an infraction. The attitudes you are expressing here are NOT normal or healthy, for anyone, ever.

Last edited by Lunar Delta; 12-11-2013 at 07:23 PM..
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