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A gay business owner must provide services to a Westboro Baptist Church member.
Correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by txdave35
If the government can force a business to provide service, what else can they do?
Make laws, enter into contracts, borrow on credit, levy taxes, hold elections, and in the case of the federal government, declare war and enter into treaties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by txdave35
Also, why isn't this bakery considered a private business? A public business would be a business traded by the public with multiple shareholders.
It's a place of public accommodation. They are open to the public at large and thus cannot discriminate against certain members of it, based on predesignated factors such as religion, race, gender and in Colorado, sexual orientation. It has nothing to do with being publicly traded.
Yes, she's clearly bisexual. It's the B in LGBT. However, she's on the record as not wanting to be labeled, which helps explain the incongruity.
but in 1979 she was a lesbian only
anybody can choose to be any type of sexual they so choose. people can have a predisposition towards certain types of philias but they choose it and can choose to stop it.
people who believe that homosexuality are complete ignoramuses and mindless sheep.
Great! My religious beliefs say I need to be naked at all times. Now I can not be arrested for public indecency because it is a religious belief.
Public indecency laws exist to protect citizens. Your religious beliefs stop whenever they involve a criminal act that can harm society. A baker refuses to sell a wedding cake results in zero harm except for an offended gay couple.
Public indecency laws exist to protect citizens. Your religious beliefs stop whenever they involve a criminal act that can harm society. A baker refuses to sell a wedding cake results in zero harm except for an offended gay couple.
Fortunately, your religious beliefs exempt you from a total of zero laws, regardless of your opinion of them.
Make laws, enter into contracts, borrow on credit, levy taxes, hold elections, and in the case of the federal government, declare war and enter into treaties.
It's a place of public accommodation. They are open to the public at large and thus cannot discriminate against certain members of it, based on predesignated factors such as religion, race, gender and in Colorado, sexual orientation. It has nothing to do with being publicly traded.
And how do you define a private business? Some place hidden back in the woods?
There is no dispute that the baker broke the law, and the law exists. Why do you coming back to that? We can dispute the future consequences of having a law that forces a business owner to conduct a transaction against their wishes. This is a new category of law involving sexual orientation and it goes both ways. A gay business owner must provide services to a Westboro Baptist Church member. If the government can force a business to provide service, what else can they do?
That it goes the other way is not new. Gay business owners haven't been allowed to discriminate against and deny service to Christians in all 50 states since 1964.
Quote:
Also, why isn't this bakery considered a private business? A public business would be a business traded by the public with multiple shareholders.
It falls under the anti-discrimination in commerce statute because it engages in sales to the public.
There is no dispute that the baker broke the law, and the law exists. Why do you coming back to that? We can dispute the future consequences of having a law that forces a business owner to conduct a transaction against their wishes. This is a new category of law involving sexual orientation and it goes both ways. A gay business owner must provide services to a Westboro Baptist Church member. If the government can force a business to provide service, what else can they do?
Also, why isn't this bakery considered a private business? A public business would be a business traded by the public with multiple shareholders.
The bakery is considered a public accommodations. Hotels, restaurants, grocery stores, etc are considered public accommodations. If the bakery wants to be considered private, they can become a private membership bakery. I know of several businesses that have become private membership clubs to skirt laws.
NY Jew is trying to say that a former lesbian marrying a man is proof that sexuality can be changed (something that is called abuse by every medical and psychological organization). I'm trying to demonstrate that sexuality is nuanced and he's incorrect in multiple ways.
Nicholas Cummings former president of the American Psychological Association
Quote:
Q: Of these, how many were reoriented toward heterosexuality, how many failed in this effort; and how many remained identified as homosexuals? Dr. C: Most on presentation did not express a goal of reorienting, but came for a number of related issues and dissatisfactions concerning the life style that eventually elicited a desire to change. These issues included the transient nature of relationships, disgust or guilt feelings about promiscuity, fear of disease, a wish to have a tradtional family, etc. Exactly how may presented with the initially stated wish to change I do not now recall, but I can say with certainty that it was a minority, possibly even less than 10% of the 18,000 patients. When I say that 67% had satisfactory outcomes, the majority of these were able to attain a more happy and sane homosexual life style with stable relationships. This would have been a bit more than 10,000 of the 18,000 presenting, with another 2400 actually reorienting. About 1/3 of the 18,000 had unsuccessful outcomes (continued promiscuity, unhappiness, perpetually chasing after anonymous sex, drug addiction, etc.). Q: A third of your clients weren't helped at all by therapy. How would you describe these individuals? Compulsive? Obsessive? Dr. C: Remembering that these percentages do not describe the homosexual community at large, but only those individuals who sought treatment with us, about one-third were sexually compulsive, driven to seek anonymous sexual encounters, never satisfied, and constantly obsessing on what they termed as their "sexual addictions." There was a high incidence of drug abuse among this group, and often the thought of repeated sex with the same individual was terrifying. I recall one patient who thought he was having an anonymous encounter when the man with whom he had a forgotten previous contact called him by his first name. My patient fled in terror. Q: You have been critical of the psychological community for its part in distorting research on sexual orientation. Can you describe why you are critical of the APA? Dr. C: First, let me say that I have been a lifelong champion of civil rights, including lesbian and gay rights. I appointed as president (1979) the APA's first Task Force on Lesbian and Gay Issues, which eventually became an APA division. In that era the issue was a person's right to choose a gay life style, whereas now an individual's choice not to be gay is called into question because the leadership of the APA seems to have concluded that all homosexuality is hard-wired and same-sex attraction is unchangeable.
My experience has demonstrated that there are as many different kinds of homosexuals as there are heterosexuals. Relegating all same sex-attraction as an unchangeable--an oppressed group akin to African-Americans and other minorities--distorts reality. And past attempts to make sexual reorientation therapy "unethical" violates patient choice and makes the APA the de facto determiner of therapeutic goals.
That's not even the stupidest post he's made on this thread in the last hour. Did you miss the posts in which he said religious freedom under the 1st Amendment only applies to the religious beliefs people held in the 1700s?
I never said that you misunderstood what I said.
I said that religious freedom under the 1st Amendment only applies to religions that would meet the 1700s definition of the word
Public indecency laws exist to protect citizens. Your religious beliefs stop whenever they involve a criminal act that can harm society. A baker refuses to sell a wedding cake results in zero harm except for an offended gay couple.
So do anti discrimination laws. If YOUR personal religious beliefs get to trump the law, so does everyone elses. And yes, wide spread discrimination does harm society.
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