Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So do anti discrimination laws. If YOUR personal religious beliefs get to trump the law, so does everyone elses. And yes, wide spread discrimination does harm society.
How did it exactly harm the gay couple? All they had to do was easily find another bakery.
We are not talking about wide spread discrimination here. We are talking about a specific situation where the discrimination law forces someone to perform an action that compromises their religion. It would be like the government forcing a Muslim to eat pork. But refusing service to a gay person which doesn't cross the religious barrier is wrong. Many of these bakers have said they would have no problem selling goods or baking a birthday cake for gay people. It's the marriage that crosses the line.
Instead, we are swinging in a big opposition direction where a gay person can complain about a minor thing like not getting a tip from Christians, and the media makes it national news.
How did it exactly harm the gay couple? All they had to do was easily find another bakery.
We are not talking about wide spread discrimination here. We are talking about a specific situation where the discrimination law forces someone to perform an action that compromises their religion. It would be like the government forcing a Muslim to eat pork. But refusing service to a gay person which doesn't cross the religious barrier is wrong. Many of these bakers have said they would have no problem selling goods or baking a birthday cake for gay people. It's the marriage that crosses the line.
It's still against anti-discrimination law. It really does not matter how serious you personally consider the infraction. It's against the law. Period.
Anyone ever hear of the FREE MARKET!!!
These is no law that says the owner has to bake a cake for everyone (no should their be), There is no law that says he has to not bake a care for a certain group. The cake store down the street WILL BAKE THE CAKE!!!! Please understand the Free Market and understand liberty, personal property and the rights of OWNERSHIP. With Government not telling anyone what they can or can not do I am sure SOMEONE in this entire country can MAKE A CAKE for this couple! Give me a break. If someone had BAD debit and had came in the shop and I bought a cake from the owner and never paid him and then asked for another cake does he have the right to refuse service! Gay couples, and or any other events owners of business can choice who they serve. This baker doesn't own the rights to all wedding cakes gay couples go somewhere else I am sure they already HAVE!!!
How did it exactly harm the gay couple? All they had to do was easily find another bakery.
We are not talking about wide spread discrimination here. We are talking about a specific situation where the discrimination law forces someone to perform an action that compromises their religion. It would be like the government forcing a Muslim to eat pork. But refusing service to a gay person which doesn't cross the religious barrier is wrong. Many of these bakers have said they would have no problem selling goods or baking a birthday cake for gay people. It's the marriage that crosses the line.
Instead, we are swinging in a big opposition direction where a gay person can complain about a minor thing like not getting a tip from Christians, and the media makes it national news.
No one is forcing the baker to marry someone of the same sex. So, your Muslim forced to eat pork analogy doesn't work. If selling cakes is against the bakers religion, then I suggest he not sell cakes, but since he does sell cakes, he can not refuse to sell them based on protected classes. If you have a problem with the laws of the state, then fight to get them repealed. Until such time as that happens, the baker has to follow the law.
Anyone ever hear of the FREE MARKET!!!
These is no law that says the owner has to bake a cake for everyone (no should their be), There is no law that says he has to not bake a care for a certain group. The cake store down the street WILL BAKE THE CAKE!!!! Please understand the Free Market and understand liberty, personal property and the rights of OWNERSHIP. With Government not telling anyone what they can or can not do I am sure SOMEONE in this entire country can MAKE A CAKE for this couple! Give me a break. If someone had BAD debit and had came in the shop and I bought a cake from the owner and never paid him and then asked for another cake does he have the right to refuse service! Gay couples, and or any other events owners of business can choice who they serve. This baker doesn't own the rights to all wedding cakes gay couples go somewhere else I am sure they already HAVE!!!
Wow! Is your handle ever off the mark!
Liberty and Justice for All? You should change it to Liberty and Justice for People I Approve Of.
Anyone ever hear of the FREE MARKET!!!
These is no law that says the owner has to bake a cake for everyone (no should their be), There is no law that says he has to not bake a care for a certain group. The cake store down the street WILL BAKE THE CAKE!!!! Please understand the Free Market and understand liberty, personal property and the rights of OWNERSHIP. With Government not telling anyone what they can or can not do I am sure SOMEONE in this entire country can MAKE A CAKE for this couple! Give me a break. If someone had BAD debit and had came in the shop and I bought a cake from the owner and never paid him and then asked for another cake does he have the right to refuse service! Gay couples, and or any other events owners of business can choice who they serve. This baker doesn't own the rights to all wedding cakes gay couples go somewhere else I am sure they already HAVE!!!
You might want to review the anti discrimination laws both federal and state. And there is no such thing as a truly free market in this country.
These is no law that says the owner has to bake a cake for everyone (no should their be), There is no law that says he has to not bake a care for a certain group.
How did it exactly harm the gay couple? All they had to do was easily find another bakery.
We are not talking about wide spread discrimination here. We are talking about a specific situation where the discrimination law forces someone to perform an action that compromises their religion. It would be like the government forcing a Muslim to eat pork. But refusing service to a gay person which doesn't cross the religious barrier is wrong. Many of these bakers have said they would have no problem selling goods or baking a birthday cake for gay people. It's the marriage that crosses the line.
Instead, we are swinging in a big opposition direction where a gay person can complain about a minor thing like not getting a tip from Christians, and the media makes it national news.
The issue here is not religiously-based dietary restrictions, it is illegal discrimination which uses abstract interpretation of religious dogma as a justification. A more accurate analogy would be the government forcing Islamic taxi drivers to carry seeing-eye dogs in their vehicles. This is exactly what happened to Minneapolis taxi drivers who claimed that transporting dogs ("unclean" animals in Islamic belief) violated their First Amendment rights. The drivers lost the argument, and rightfully so.
Sin is not to be celebrated. There's the faith issue. I wouldn't want to bake a cake to celebrate a swinger's party. It gets even worse when you have the Christian photograph who is forced to take photos of the gay wedding. Now you are an active participant in the event.
The celebration is the celebration and the photographer is in his absolute right to refuse.
Reason being in order to take the pictures a premise is required to find a relational personal enjoyment in what is being celebrated, to achieve his product.
An artist cannot be forced to bring his talents to an occasion which he finds distasteful. That would contradict what he is offering in the talent. He simply cannot do the job and either can the photographer, it contradicts the product he has to offer in the first place . Inspiration. Inspiration cannot be forced.
If the wedding cake is a standard recipe there is nothing in translation possible for the baker to express, in what is suggested encouraging what is believed wrong. There is no opportunity for exchange in a belief, Its business. Business is not guidance . If he sets up to bake cakes in his spare time on a when I feel like it basis, then the arguement changes , that's not a business that's a hobby.
Last edited by alexcanter; 12-11-2013 at 02:22 PM..
A baker refuses to sell a wedding cake results in zero harm except for an offended gay couple.
When I was a teenager in 1963 Biloxi, MS people were saying the same thing about black folks. And yes it was against the religion of some to treat black people equally. My grandfather was one that thought that way. They needed to be treated "fairly" but in their "place."
Do you see racial discrimination as somehow different from sexual orientation discrimination? You might say yes, but it wasn't that clear in the south in 1963. The elapse of time and the implementation of law to protect against racial discrimination has mitigated our views about racial discrimination today.
The gay community is exactly where the black community was in the late fifties/early sixties. The LGBT community needs its own MLK, Jr. to move along social acceptance of their culture.
Frankly, I will never understand it, but I won't oppose it and will treat members of that community just like I treat black folks----exactly like I want to be treated.
And one purpose of government is to stand up for minority groups when no one else will. God bless the USA.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
