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Old 12-18-2013, 02:32 PM
 
4,245 posts, read 2,828,753 times
Reputation: 2773

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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
OP. The problem with your thesis, "just hide until the thief leaves" is a terrible idea. The thief is looking for stuff. Its likely he will find you. Then what happens. He pulls a gun and wants to know where all your valuables are. How do you know he or she is not going to pull the trigger or rape you. Answer "you don't". So you take the risk of hoping they won't kill you? That's why the law allows in most states, for the occupant to defend themselves with a gun or knife or a baseball bat. Running and hiding is hardly an effective defense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
It's a good example of how the problem is not the gun, but of inadequate care for the mentally ill. Alzheimer's is after all mental illness, even though we don't tend to think of it that way.Only a liberal could believe that the person who arms himself to defend against this kind of attack, is a nut.

Only a liberal could believe that the person who insists on leaving themselves vulnerable to this kind of attack represents the voice of reason and sanity.
Only a conservative couldn't understand the difference between an actual attack, and a perceived one. <-- this is a joke by the way.

Does no one here understand the difference between shooting someone who happens to be "on your property" and shooting someone who is either in your house or actively breaking into your house? There is a difference you know. A big one. And if it makes me a "liberal" to think that shooting someone who accidentally walks onto my property is wrong, then call me a big ol' flaming liberal.

On every thread I've read about someone getting shot outside a house, even someone who accidentally pulled into the wrong driveway, the responses from many pro-gun people are "Well, how was the shooter supposed to know what that person's intention was??" Right. So why shoot them if you don't know??? Once they start breaking a window, you can give them the chance to turn around. Once they enter, game over. Don't know why this is hard.
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:42 PM
 
1,111 posts, read 1,093,363 times
Reputation: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
You seem to have a tendency to conflate reality with a conceptualized movie script. Life isn't simply a movie.

I may not have a phone handy when the break in occurs. My phone service might not be working. I may not have time to call before he sees me and attacks me. Maybe he cut the phone line. And there may not be a cop driving by my house at the precise moment 911 alerts him to come.

Fortunately, I don't need to worry. I can shoot the SOB if I want to. It's my legal right to defend myself.

You seem to be mixing terms. When a trespasser breaks into my house, it's not ME turning a burglary into shooting. It's HIM committing a crime of aggression. It's not up to me to determine his motive for breaking in. It's his responsibility not to commit a crime. The law does NOT require me to cower in my house. The law allows me to defend my home on reasonable grounds.

My suspicion is that people are growing paranoid because media reports give them the idea that crime is out of control and the police cannot or will not help them in time.

I think to a point this thread was on it's way to a good discussion of gun regulation vs influence in the media as to why we have such a violent nation, and why so many people die as a result of gun shot wounds every year in the US.
Perhaps it is the media, the movie, the TV. I've heard that all of my life. I never wanted to believe that as a society we could possibly be so ignorant as to be led around by these factors, but maybe this is in fact the case.
OTOH the post that I'm quoting here falls directly in line with what OP was saying about the gun culture in the nation.
The story is about an elderly man with Alzheimer's who took his dogs for a walk at 1am, in a moment of confusion (I'm assuming) KNOCKED on his neighbors door and was shot to death. Led Zeppelin's response? " I can shoot the SOB if I want to. It's my legal right to defend myself"

This is the perfect example of the phrase that a lot of people have been stating ever since Newtown, "nothing should be off the table" Should we look at our TV, movies and media? Yes. Should we look at games, music and internet? Yes. Should we look at greater sanctions on guns? Yes. Does that mean that the RIGHT to bear arms might be taken way? Maybe. Afterall it's highly doubtful that when that "RIGHT" was written it was even conceivable that a mentally unstable old man could get murdered for knocking on someone's door.
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Old 12-18-2013, 03:35 PM
 
3,217 posts, read 1,634,105 times
Reputation: 1840
Another +1 for Renault...... The media and TV has made people afraid of their own shadows. This has nothing to do with firearms. It has everything to do with people wanting to protect themselves by whatever means possible.
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Old 12-18-2013, 03:42 PM
 
4,839 posts, read 3,429,031 times
Reputation: 1833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlandochuck1 View Post
Another +1 for Renault...... The media and TV has made people afraid of their own shadows. This has nothing to do with firearms. .
Really.....so people walking around w/their guns on them 24/7 has nothing to do with being paranoid....riiiiight. Hate to tell you, that is the very definition of paranoid.
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:03 PM
 
793 posts, read 1,063,887 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by northnut View Post
Really.....so people walking around w/their guns on them 24/7 has nothing to do with being paranoid....riiiiight. Hate to tell you, that is the very definition of paranoid.
why, are you paranoid about the people walking around 24/7 with guns on?
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:04 PM
 
Location: N/A
903 posts, read 571,828 times
Reputation: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by creepy View Post
I am saddened by this news story.

Suffering from Alzheimer's, Ga. man fatally shot - US news

So many now see anyone on their property as a potential killer and they shoot them. I am afraid for all our children, our elderly ourselves with this sick, pervasive attitude growing.

I remember a slogan from a crime prevention seminar "Never turn a crime of property into a crime of violence."

So please if you are cowering in your house-do this. Stay inside, hide, call the Police.
Yeah, so come get all the guns....
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:21 PM
 
4,839 posts, read 3,429,031 times
Reputation: 1833
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tall View Post
why, are you paranoid about the people walking around 24/7 with guns on?
Tell me something, why are the gun nuts so paranoid that they have to walk around with guns strapped on 24/7?
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:24 PM
 
793 posts, read 1,063,887 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by northnut View Post
Tell me something, why are the gun nuts so paranoid that they have to walk around with guns strapped on 24/7?
Same reason people bother to fasten seat belts, I imagine.

Why are people so afraid of them? The thought of citizens carrying around me doesn't bother me in the least.
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:26 PM
 
Location: N/A
903 posts, read 571,828 times
Reputation: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by northnut View Post
Tell me something, why are the gun nuts so paranoid that they have to walk around with guns strapped on 24/7?
You mean the Secret Service? NSA? FBI? Bloombergs thugs? Who are the gun nuts.....

Oh! NY and Chicago Police? Why are they so paranoid.
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Riverside
4,088 posts, read 3,550,482 times
Reputation: 3073
Quote:
Originally Posted by creepy View Post
I am saddened by this news story.

Suffering from Alzheimer's, Ga. man fatally shot - US news

So many now see anyone on their property as a potential killer and they shoot them. I am afraid for all our children, our elderly ourselves with this sick, pervasive attitude growing.

I remember a slogan from a crime prevention seminar "Never turn a crime of property into a crime of violence."

So please if you are cowering in your house-do this. Stay inside, hide, call the Police.
You are confusing cause and effect. Stupidity and paranoia created our gun fetish. Not the other way around.
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