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Old 12-09-2013, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,139 posts, read 1,010,954 times
Reputation: 1462

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I am saddened by this news story.

Suffering from Alzheimer's, Ga. man fatally shot - US news

So many now see anyone on their property as a potential killer and they shoot them. I am afraid for all our children, our elderly ourselves with this sick, pervasive attitude growing.

I remember a slogan from a crime prevention seminar "Never turn a crime of property into a crime of violence."

So please if you are cowering in your house-do this. Stay inside, hide, call the Police.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:16 AM
 
7,022 posts, read 5,775,547 times
Reputation: 6963
I disagree. Americans have had more access to guns in generations past and they weren't nearly as stupid and paranoid then as they are today.

I blame the mass media. If you watch the news every day, or American movies and TV shows, all you'll see are negative representations of American society. That's bound to affect you and make you suspicious of your own neighbors.

People need to unplug from the TV and internet and reconnect with real live human beings face to face instead of living their life through social media chat rooms.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,139 posts, read 1,010,954 times
Reputation: 1462
how sad the shooter's lawyer says ""He is not a gun-toting rights activist who's saying, 'Keep off my property,'"

Hi Renault why "Americans have had more access to guns in generations past " do you think this? I mean what stats or anecdotal knowledge makes you think this?

In my experience that is flipped. I have never seen more access than the past 20 years.

thx
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,021 posts, read 20,523,664 times
Reputation: 20382
Quote:

Hi Renault why "Americans have had more access to guns in generations past "
do you think this? I mean what stats or anecdotal knowledge makes you think
this?

In my experience that is flipped. I have never seen more access
than the past 20 years.
I agree with Renault. I don't have any stats just anecdotal knowledge. Growing up one could buy firearms and ammo at the local flee markets and celebrations, pawn shop or just about anywhere without any ID or "paperwork". Half the town carried shotguns and hunting riffles in racks mounted in the back window of their trucks.

I don't see any of that today. I had to show ID to buy ammo. To buy a firearm you must fill out paperwork and wait for a background check.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,139 posts, read 1,010,954 times
Reputation: 1462
Well growing up here in Texas it was the way 2mares described and still is. Maybe where you are at these gun regulations are now n place, not here. We have a vocal, active radical group that wants and succeeds in straw sales, guns for anyone especially whites to get one.

However if you are a pro-gun proponent lying to say it is that way-when it isn't-might be in ones propaganda arsenal so to speak, because you don't want more gun regulation.

That is why so many criminals, home grown terrorists, mentally ill and Mexican citizens have guns-our wonderful (sarcasm) Texas hospitality. That is also why the gun rights discussion gets so complicated-every state have different laws and different experiences. So some person in one state thinks it is so bad because of the gun laws and we need more guns not knowing they were banned 40 years before because it got so bad with them decimating the black community, etc. Or someone else wants less cause of "different argument". I also use the word propaganda as a general term, not as a slam.

Getting into a a pro-gun, anti-gun discussion was not my focus here-it was to try and not talk of that now and focus on what we could perhaps all agree on.

Moving on what about the slogan "Never turn a crime of property into a crime of violence."

If we can get that into people's heads so they use logic rather than emotion when deciding what to do when confronted with various scenarios would be a good step.

Some examples are: if someone is breaking into your car outside your house-call the cops-don't go play Batman. If someone is crouching in your yard or scratching at your door at night, stay inside, don't let your suspicions make you into a paranoid fool, call the cops-let them handle it.

I give these examples because of the news story and also down the street from me the first one happened about 8 years ago. The homeowner came out to defend his car and he was the one shot and killed. So never turn the situation worse by making a stupider decision.
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,021 posts, read 20,523,664 times
Reputation: 20382
Quote:
Originally Posted by creepy View Post
Moving on what about the slogan "Never turn a crime of property into a crime of violence."

If we can get that into people's heads so they use logic rather than emotion when deciding what to do when confronted with various scenarios would be a good step.

Some examples are: if someone is breaking into your car outside your house-call the cops-don't go play Batman. If someone is crouching in your yard or scratching at your door at night, stay inside, don't let your suspicions make you into a paranoid fool, call the cops-let them handle it.
The problem is many crimes of property are home invasions. I agree that homeowners should use more logic and restraint but I also understand that people question how long should they wait for help when someone is potentially trying to get into their home. What may be going thru their mind is that this person or persons could be armed with intent to assault or kill their family members.
You also have people in rural areas where it could take 30 min., 45 min. or longer for the police to arrive.
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:37 PM
 
28,411 posts, read 14,144,643 times
Reputation: 19545
Look more victims of our car culture:

3 Killed, Child Injured in Hit-and-Run Crash in Pleasant Grove | NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth

When are we going to outlaw private vehicles and end the slaughter of so many innocents, including children.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:00 PM
 
Location: SWUS
5,414 posts, read 7,631,078 times
Reputation: 5781
I don't think it's just specific to "gun culture", it includes a rather large portion of American society. Look at what our government has been caught doing. Look at some of the absolutely sick and twisted things people across the world do to each other. Some people are far more paranoid than others, but paranoia can be a good thing. We are learning more and more that the world isn't as it seems, every horrid thing we do to each other is broadcast and tweeted and uploaded for all the world to see.

Criminals know that there's a good chance they'll be recorded or caught in the act of committing a crime, it doesn't stop them. People still commit crimes and get away with them.

It's not the tool in many of these cases. It's the sum of a lot of other things.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:12 PM
 
1,176 posts, read 1,899,474 times
Reputation: 1397
Quote:
Originally Posted by creepy View Post
how sad the shooter's lawyer says ""He is not a gun-toting rights activist who's saying, 'Keep off my property,'"

Hi Renault why "Americans have had more access to guns in generations past " do you think this? I mean what stats or anecdotal knowledge makes you think this?

In my experience that is flipped. I have never seen more access than the past 20 years.

thx
It depends on your state, but at one time the sale of firearms through catalogues, via dealers and via private transactions was completely unrestricted. The last 20 years have certainly seen the proliferation of concealed carry legislation and concealed carry reciprocity between states, however, it's certainly not easier to acquire a firearm now than it was 20 years ago. Now, the NICS checks the background of every single transaction where the seller is an FFL holder, gunshow or not. The only way to have an unrestricted sale is to purchase a firearm from a private seller in a face-to-face transaction - which isn't as common as one may imagine and isn't as flippant either; as a private seller I am still subject to criminal penalties if I sell a firearm to someone who may not legally possess one, so I would have to be very certain that whoever I was selling to was on the up-and-up before I would do that (as would most people) and, personally, I will get a notarized bill of sale identifying the parties to the transaction and describing the firearm that is changing hands.

26 years ago any civilian who successfully applied for registration through the BATFE could acquire any fully-automatic firearm or have one built. That's no longer the case. There is no longer any legal market whatsoever for fully-automatic firearms built post-86 regardless of whether or not you are a non-criminal, responsible enthusiast.

In 1994 there was an "assault weapons ban" with a 10 year primary term that completely arbitrarily restricted certain features on handguns and rifles... Which, predictably, had no impact on firearms-related violent crime; only on access to firearms by law-abiding citizens.

In 2013 there was a major push for a far more specific and restrictive firearms ban and many states have passed their own legislation seriously restricting access to firearms.

If you seriously believe that firearms are becoming more accessible over time, you should check your lip for hooks.

The subject article made the news because it sounds bad (and it IS bad). There are lots and lots of justified shootings in home invasions that were carried out in a reasonable manner and will never make any headlines. This one has been brought to your attention purely because it makes people say stupid things like "Oh my God! The elderly are dying because there are too many guns!", which isn't a rational conclusion after an incident like this, but that's the design - incite irrational emotional sentiment to generate ad hits and political capital.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:01 PM
 
1,474 posts, read 2,977,917 times
Reputation: 2044
What surprises me about guns and motor vehicles is not that we have murders/shootings or accidents but that we don't have a whole lot more of it. Our movies, TV shows, games are filled with violence and mayhem until we are anesthetized to it. I don't even read local news items about violence. I just expect it.
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