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Old 12-09-2013, 02:55 PM
 
25,205 posts, read 11,849,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And that's because to the up to 30 milliion illegals minimum wage in the US is beyond their wildest dreams, in their country they would be lucky to get 50 cents an hour for this work. Immigration laws are not being enforced.
Working in the chicken processing plant when I was younger, there was a lot of truth to this. (For those who have a mindset that Mexicans are lazy BTW...work alongside them at a chicken processing plant-you wont agree anymore, they work just as hard as you do).

Good news though, Obama has deported more of them then the last few presidents combined.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:59 PM
 
8,362 posts, read 3,537,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Retired Now View Post
Unskilled Blue Collar folks were paid very well in the 1960s, was this unfair?
I don't think unfair. But today with newer technologies and advances in industrial efficiencies, a good many of these sorts of jobs simply no longer exist.
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,888,088 times
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A decent minimum wage might make the managers work harder for their bonuses and the investors smarter for their profits. We cant let that happen can we now.
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:02 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,056,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Working in the chicken processing plant when I was younger, there was a lot of truth to this. (For those who have a mindset that Mexicans are lazy BTW...work alongside them at a chicken processing plant-you wont agree anymore, they work just as hard as you do).

Good news though, Obama has deported more of them then the last few presidents combined.
While at the same time promising them one reward after another if they come here illegally. He isn't really doing much deportation, but now they count the ones turned away on the border as deportation.
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,888,088 times
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They still exist. A good friend just managed to escape unloading truck at a big box store for very low wage.
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Holly Springs
3,864 posts, read 9,325,016 times
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I employ blue collar workers and have been one myself. The word "unskilled" can have different meanings to different people. The majority of my employees were initially unskilled related to what it is we do, but now that they are trained, I would consider them skilled. We are in a niche market though, so marketability of the skill is where the definition starts to modify.
Not a single person that works for me currently makes less than double the minimum wage by the way, and all made $12-15 hour to start at the bottom Even at that level, it is still a challenge to find dependable workers. I get a lot of responses during job postings, but many never show up to work after being given the opportunity or quit after a few days. What we do is certainly not a cake job, but it is not very "back-breaking" either.
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
6,719 posts, read 7,427,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Retired Now View Post
In all the discussion of a livable wage and the minimum wage law, I never see any discussion about how well the poorly educated folks who worked in a factory did in the 1950s to 1970s.

I have a number of relatives who graduated from high school went straight to the factory and made a nice middle class income which would be similar to $20 an hour today. They were not trained in anything, they just did grunt unskilled labor.

If these guys could make such nice incomes in the 50s, 60s and 70s, why can't restaurant workers and retail clerks, who come from a similar background, be paid well today?
It's called supply and demand. In the 50s-70s there was a strong need for labor in industry because the US was a manufacturing nation. Thanks to Washington politics (both sides of the aisle are to blame) many of our manufacturing jobs have been moved overseas, automated, or simply gotten rid of. We now have a plethora of workers looking for a job and it's an employers' market. Until businesses are encouraged to move their manufacturing back to the United States and the balance shifts back to parity between jobs and potential employees, it will remain an employers' market and wages will remain low.

That being said, as I've posted in other threads there are jobs out there that pay far more than minimum wage and don't require much if anything in the way of prior education, skill, or experience. They aren't necessarily fun or easy jobs, but they do pay well for those who are willing to actually work for decent money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Working in the chicken processing plant when I was younger, there was a lot of truth to this. (For those who have a mindset that Mexicans are lazy BTW...work alongside them at a chicken processing plant-you wont agree anymore, they work just as hard as you do).

Good news though, Obama has deported more of them then the last few presidents combined.
Even better, work with a few Mexicans on a roofing crew for a couple of days. You'll wish you were somewhere else - anywhere else - by the time the first day is over, because they will work circles around you and converse with each other while doing it.
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:07 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,056,698 times
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There is no reason for employers to pay better when so many third world very impoverished types are coming and are more than gkad to work for little.

And honest employers who would pay better, are being put out of business when the crooks hiring illegals can underbid them and have much higher profits from using illegals.i
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:07 PM
 
4,647 posts, read 2,746,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Retired Now View Post
In all the discussion of a livable wage and the minimum wage law, I never see any discussion about how well the poorly educated folks who worked in a factory did in the 1950s to 1970s.

I have a number of relatives who graduated from high school went straight to the factory and made a nice middle class income which would be similar to $20 an hour today. They were not trained in anything, they just did grunt unskilled labor.

If these guys could make such nice incomes in the 50s, 60s and 70s, why can't restaurant workers and retail clerks, who come from a similar background, be paid well today?
Ok, now I'm really confused. In the early 60's the upper tax rate was 90%. Kennedy bought it down to 70%, twice what it is now. I thought tax cuts for the rich were supposed to help working people
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:08 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,153 posts, read 15,855,345 times
Reputation: 8814
Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Retired Now View Post
In all the discussion of a livable wage and the minimum wage law, I never see any discussion about how well the poorly educated folks who worked in a factory did in the 1950s to 1970s.

I have a number of relatives who graduated from high school went straight to the factory and made a nice middle class income which would be similar to $20 an hour today. They were not trained in anything, they just did grunt unskilled labor.

If these guys could make such nice incomes in the 50s, 60s and 70s, why can't restaurant workers and retail clerks, who come from a similar background, be paid well today?
Because pay is according to the value of the work being performed, and the skill required, not necessarily the education required to perform it. And, this value is also dependent on the supply of people willing to do the work. If it is difficult to find people who have the skill to do a job, the value increases, and therefore the wage or salary is higher.

In your example of factory work, many people do not wish to work in a factory. It can be tedious, repetitious work. Also, many people just aren't skilled with their hands. Those that are excel running machinery, or assembling parts. They have value in their manual skills.

Those who work in a restaurant environment, serving others, compete with perhaps thousands of people who could do their job. Supply, therefore, is high, and the skill level is low. Not much is required of them except to show up for their shift.

I'll add something else from personal experience: At one of the small oceonographic instrument companies I worked for, the guys in mechanical assembly ususally spotted problems with design that engineers often did not see, and these problems made assembly more difficult. The company president would stop in often to ask them what they needed, or if there were any problems, and these things would be pointed out. That is how they got corrected. Engineers are often blind to what others may have to go through to build the product. Product improvements often happen in just this way.

Last edited by nononsenseguy; 12-09-2013 at 03:22 PM..
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