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Old 12-09-2013, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Chicago
1,124 posts, read 756,756 times
Reputation: 407

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I just became aware of a very alarming aspect of ACA (aka Obamacare) which affects anyone over 55 and who is placed into state Medicaid programs.

I was doing fine until the government stopped giving me interest on my savings. As a result, my income now puts me below the poverty level. As a result, I am forced to seek insurance within the Medicaid program of my state (Illinois). What I learned today was that my estate will be subject to a lien equal to all medical expenses paid out to me via Medicaid. In other words, Medicaid is loan against the assets of anyone over 55 and this loan is repaid from the estate upon death. It is not insurance. The state ends up paying a sum if and only if I die a pauper.

 
Old 12-09-2013, 06:12 PM
 
18,010 posts, read 5,840,568 times
Reputation: 3377
There is going to be a lot of tax scheming designed to escape Medicaid and get a huge subsidy to purchase insurance on the exchanges.

The way it works is...if your income is within shouting distance of the amount needed to escape Medicaid and qualify for an insurance subsidy on the exchange, be creative and make up nonexistent income in order to qualify for the subsidy. Use this income to estimate your insurance subsidy and enroll in Obamacare. Go find creative ways to earn that amount of money. For example, you clean a friends house for $50 and she cleans your house for $50, you both end up with no net financial change except that each of you now have $50 more income (and the corresponding tax liability and incremental gain toward insurance subsidy). Then at the end of the year, file a tax return reporting your total actual income, AND PAY THE APPROPRIATE TAX DUE. For many people, this tax will be in the neighborhood of several hundred dollars. (If your income is not within shouting distance of the minimum needed to qualify for an insurance subsidy, this is probably infeasible because you will owe much more tax.)
 
Old 12-09-2013, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Chicago
1,124 posts, read 756,756 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
There is going to be a lot of tax scheming designed to escape Medicaid and get a huge subsidy to purchase insurance on the exchanges.

The way it works is...if your income is within shouting distance of the amount needed to escape Medicaid and qualify for an insurance subsidy on the exchange, be creative and make up nonexistent income in order to qualify for the subsidy. Use this income to estimate your insurance subsidy and enroll in Obamacare. Go find creative ways to earn that amount of money. For example, you clean a friends house for $50 and she cleans your house for $50, you both end up with no net financial change except that each of you now have $50 more income (and the corresponding tax liability and incremental gain toward insurance subsidy). Then at the end of the year, file a tax return reporting your total actual income, AND PAY THE APPROPRIATE TAX DUE. For many people, this tax will be in the neighborhood of several hundred dollars. (If your income is not within shouting distance of the minimum needed to qualify for an insurance subsidy, this is probably infeasible because you will owe much more tax.)
Yes, this is one approach to avoid the Medicaid liens. None of my friends knew about this. The government seems to want to hide this along with the extremely high deductibles associated with the ACA policies. ACA is turning out to be a windfall for providers but a disaster for the customers.
 
Old 12-09-2013, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Sarasota FL
4,057 posts, read 3,455,527 times
Reputation: 2550
If you are in a situation where you have to go on Medicaid and have assets, there are many ways to not have the government be able to place recovery liens on the assets.
 
Old 12-09-2013, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Chicago
1,124 posts, read 756,756 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4g4m View Post
If you are in a situation where you have to go on Medicaid and have assets, there are many ways to not have the government be able to place recovery liens on the assets.
Yes, I guess one can do appropriate estate planning, but what a scam calling this insurance or affordable. Everytime a someone uses Medicaid, they are racking up a bill on their estate (unless one uses other legal means to get around it). Now, people like myself have to figure out how to "game the system". Is there anything that is not a scam any more?

I have come to the viewpoint that government has become its own perpetual motion machine, always looking for new ways to extract money from people (especially seniors) in order to continue to keep feeding its own money devouring. Something really has to be done. In this respect, the economic Tea Party members are totally on point.
 
Old 12-09-2013, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Maine
561 posts, read 236,238 times
Reputation: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
The government seems to want to hide this along with the extremely high deductibles associated with the ACA policies.
It's not that the Domocrats tried to hide it. They had no idea! Remember, they had to pass Obamacare in order to find out what was in it.
 
Old 12-09-2013, 09:05 PM
 
Location: N/A
903 posts, read 293,181 times
Reputation: 206
O'bama care is like a box of chocolates...

You'z nevva knows wuz you's gets.
 
Old 12-09-2013, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Maine
561 posts, read 236,238 times
Reputation: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
Medicaid is a loan against the assets of anyone over 55 and this loan is repaid from the estate upon death. It is not insurance.
This arrangement has been in place for years. As a percentage, very little is recovered. Medicare and Medicaid are still bankrupt.
 
Old 12-09-2013, 09:11 PM
 
Location: N/A
903 posts, read 293,181 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recovering Democrat View Post
This arrangement has been in place for years. As a percentage, very little is recovered. Medicare and Medicaid are still bankrupt.
The Country is Bankrupt... as soon as the printing press stops rollin'
 
Old 12-09-2013, 09:17 PM
 
7,266 posts, read 1,932,620 times
Reputation: 2714
I think it went into effect in the early 1990's, the difference is that now people can be put into medicaid earlier, at no cost, but after 55 at cost.

The bottom line in some ways is that this is really a republican ideal-I mean lets not have people mooch off of us, if they use medicaid they should pay for it right?

Although I wonder how this fits in with filial support laws? For example-in oregon ORS109.010 reads "Parents are bound to maintain their children who are poor and unable to work to maintain themselves; and children are bound to maintain their parents in like circumstances."

The bottom line of things like this, is that its a untested set of laws for things like this, and there will be court cases to decide this.
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