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Let's be clear on the subsidies about which you are speaking. Are you referring to the fact that health insurance premiums through an employer are paid with pretax dollars, that employers pay a portion of the premiums in order to take advantage of tax benefits, or is there another subsidy you are talking about?
Since it is estimated that 80 million people will lose their employer based insurance next year, are you taking delight in that since those 80 million people, as you state below, are hypocrits, and now will be saddles with high premiums and exorbitant deductibles? Just checking here for some clarification.
All benefits are a form of wages. Employer insurance is wages. It is wages that are exempt from tax meaning that the government is effectively subsidizing 25% of the premium for most workers. The tax exemption on benefits should be eliminated. Why should people who buy their own insurance from their wages like unemployed or retirees have to pay the full cost with after tax dollars, while people who work for another get a tax break?
Last edited by Ponderosa; 12-12-2013 at 08:50 AM..
Let's be clear on the subsidies about which you are speaking. Are you referring to the fact that health insurance premiums through an employer are paid with pretax dollars, that employers pay a portion of the premiums in order to take advantage of tax benefits, or is there another subsidy you are talking about?
Since it is estimated that 80 million people will lose their employer based insurance next year, are you taking delight in that since those 80 million people, as you state below, are hypocrits, and now will be saddles with high premiums and exorbitant deductibles? Just checking here for some clarification.
Yes, that is the subsidy.
80 million? Lolololol. I think you need to check some stats. That would be nearly half of all workers and their families who have employer provided health insurance. That would be a huge story. It is not happening.
All benefits are a form of wages. Employer insurance is wages. It is wages that are exempt from tax meaning that the government is effectively subsidizing 25% of the premium for most workers. The tax exemption on benefits should be eliminated. Why should people who buy their own insurance from their wages like unemployed or retirees have to pay the full cost with after tax dollars, while people who work for another get a tax break?
Some benefits are wages; some aren't. Unemployment income, which is paid in cash, is an example of a taxable benefit. Food vouchers ("stamps") are redeemable subsidies but only toward the purchase of specific items - same with medical insurance. In the cases of both food vouchers and government-sponsored medical insurance, the recipients are typically so poor that taxation wouldn't make any logical sense. Taxation on these items would make a government agency the ultimate 'Indian giver.' (pardon the lack of PC).
I don't have a problem criticizing Obamacare - it's a flawed piece of legislation. But in typical fashion, the mainstream American press, with their noise machine, makes it difficult for people to understand the difference between fact and fiction when it comes to evaluating the success of O-care.
Some benefits are wages; some aren't. Unemployment income, which is paid in cash, is an example of a taxable benefit. Food vouchers ("stamps") are redeemable subsidies but only toward the purchase of specific items - same with medical insurance. In the cases of both food vouchers and government-sponsored medical insurance, the recipients are typically so poor that taxation wouldn't make any logical sense. Taxation on these items would make a government agency the ultimate 'Indian giver.' (pardon the lack of PC).
No, employers give employee's compensation. I know people use the words benefits. A benefit in my mind suggests it is some sort of employee perk or favor, but I disagree when I see my employer produce my yearly compensation package it details how they are paying me for work.
To me that employee package just details where all of my income as an employee goes.
Some of my income goes to fund my pension. Some of my income goes to matching the 401k contributions that I pull out of my paycheck . Some of my income goes to social security. Some of my income goes to pay for my family's health insurance, and some of my income goes to pay for my unemployment insurance.
All benefits are a form of wages. Employer insurance is wages. It is wages that are exempt from tax meaning that the government is effectively subsidizing 25% of the premium for most workers. The tax exemption on benefits should be eliminated. Why should people who buy their own insurance from their wages like unemployed or retirees have to pay the full cost with after tax dollars, while people who work for another get a tax break?
So what Ponderosa is effectively saying is even if you work you are on the dole. The purpose is to make people "who don't work" feel better and for worker bees to feel better about the money that is being taken from them.
The way Ponderosa puts it "you didn't earn that... government allows you to earn and keep that"
So what Ponderosa is effectively saying is even if you work you are on the dole. The purpose is to make people "who don't work" feel better and for worker bees to feel better about the money that is being taken from them.
The way Ponderosa puts it "you didn't earn that... government allows you to earn and keep that"
There are a lot more people in the group getting taxed on health insurance than the unemployed. I left out the millions who work for small employers and others who do not provide insurance. They get the double whammy of having to buy expensive insurance on the exchange and get no tax exmption for it like anyone who gets it from an employer does. You do realize that eliminating the tax exemption for health insurance is a key part of the Republican "plan" to replace Obamacare, no? It would be replaced by an above the line credit FOR ALL TAXPAYERS not just those who get insurance from their employer. Sounds better to me. Wouldn't you agree or do you think that only people who work for an employer who pays their insurance costs should get tax favored treatment?
Obamacare is actually going to HELP the middle class. It helps those that make up to 130% ABOVE the poverty line. .. this means that people who are WORKING are getting assistance.
And if you are above it you only get subsidies which at that point it is still much cheaper to take the penalty right now in many rural cases. Or if you are like me and unemployed but living with parents are at your parents' income's mercy in getting Medicaid programs. So you now either get insurance with money you don't have or pay a penalty with money you don't have.
Originally Posted by Proud2beAMom
Obamacare is actually going to HELP the middle class. It helps those that make up to 130% ABOVE the poverty line. .. this means that people who are WORKING are getting assistance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
And if you are above it you only get subsidies which at that point it is still much cheaper to take the penalty right now in many rural cases. Or if you are like me and unemployed but living with parents are at your parents' income's mercy in getting Medicaid programs. So you now either get insurance with money you don't have or pay a penalty with money you don't have.
proud2beamom, go back and read mkpunks situation. She found one of the many cracks and Obamacare is hurting her in more ways than one. She's young, someone who is supposed to be starting her life out but can't find a job, forced to live at home, can't get help because she falls though one of the many cracks of Obamacare.
And you willingly let this happen to these young kids as long as you get Obamacare subsidies. That's greed.
There are a lot more people in the group getting taxed on health insurance than the unemployed. I left out the millions who work for small employers and others who do not provide insurance. They get the double whammy of having to buy expensive insurance on the exchange and get no tax exmption for it like anyone who gets it from an employer does. You do realize that eliminating the tax exemption for health insurance is a key part of the Republican "plan" to replace Obamacare, no? It would be replaced by an above the line credit FOR ALL TAXPAYERS not just those who get insurance from their employer. Sounds better to me. Wouldn't you agree or do you think that only people who work for an employer who pays their insurance costs should get tax favored treatment?
Actually Dems shot down that Republican plan because they felt it was unfair to the "non taxpayers".
You can't get a refundable credit if you don't have taxable income. As it should be. Dems didn't want it.
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