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Old 12-26-2013, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,155,301 times
Reputation: 5685

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI View Post
Question for all you righties against the ACA- what exactly is YOUR solution to the U$ healthcare crisis then?? Because How can letting millions of folks get sick and die, or become financially ruined through no fault of their own, be GOOD for America??
Even though ACA was a step in the right direction and yes, something has to be done to bring down the cost of healthcare...this simply added to the cost of healthcare. People stuck in the grey area will still get sick and die. Some families are faced with buying insurance or food now. Surely this program can't be offered as a real fix.......So what we have now is people getting sick and dying where before we had people getting sick and dying...so what did we fix? In the real world the subsidies will not be sustainable for the millions of folks trying to gain entry to our country...you will end up with less and less a subsidy.
Single payer is the answer. Works in Canada. Whatever we do we the people will pay for it because nothing is free after all.
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,155,301 times
Reputation: 5685
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
ObamaCare does not address the "U$ healthcare crisis," it's not about providing better health care, and obviously it's not about affordable health care, it just a bill that forces everyone to buy government approved insurance.
This!!!! Insurance companies (whom we despise) are making huge mountains of gold from this plan.
I do have a hard time understanding how we could hire a tech company and give them millions to develop a workable web site, came up with this disaster...almost like they wanted it to fail.
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,155,301 times
Reputation: 5685
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneftp View Post
1. People aren't financially ruined because of medical bill. Single payer won't even save these people. Canadians who have single payer file Bankruptcy at same rate as USA folks. People have pre existing other debts way before medical debt sets in.

2. The number of people who don't have "true access" to affordable care probably is closer to 5% of the population and not 15%. That's the same rate as Switzerland and Germany. Remember 11 million people who don't have insurance in the USA have incomes over 75k. Another 15 million are young people who easily could have chosen high quality HSA compatible pre ACA plans with much longer deductibles for $2500 max out of pocket expenses and $100-130/ month. Now they are going to get hit with up to $6300 deductible

So you are talking about 15 million who don't have true affordable access to healthcare based on income or pre existing conditions. 5% of us population just like Switzerland and Germany who have single payer.

3. You can have a limited public option (not a blank check public option the Dems proposed that could grow like a virus and eat the US budget). Have a limited public option for the 15 million who don't have access.

Liberal ideology vs actual execution of public policy are two different situations. I've love to give everyone affordable housing, food etc. it just doesn't work when you got 330 million citizens and residents to deal with. There will be some who will fall through the cracks.

Look at china and India and Brazil. Similar large countries. They can't provide half the access of care as the US does.

You must take the size of the US population in to account.
You have a good point. Far fewer people in Canada than the U.S and our immigrants keep flooding in.
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:13 PM
 
20,979 posts, read 15,641,089 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI View Post
Question for all you righties against the ACA- what exactly is YOUR solution to the U$ healthcare crisis then?? Because How can letting millions of folks get sick and die, or become financially ruined through no fault of their own, be GOOD for America??
First, ask the ones who refused to prepare by insuring themselves why they want to be sick and die.

How can taking from responsible people like me, who sacrificed things that I wanted or needed at some point, and paid to stay insured be GOOD for America?

I know many, many "poor" people.....almost every single one of them have sleeves of tattoos, smoking habits and smart phones.

It depends on where your priorities lie.
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Old 12-26-2013, 06:05 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 5,911,642 times
Reputation: 1431
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
First, ask the ones who refused to prepare by insuring themselves why they want to be sick and die.

How can taking from responsible people like me, who sacrificed things that I wanted or needed at some point, and paid to stay insured be GOOD for America?

I know many, many "poor" people.....almost every single one of them have sleeves of tattoos, smoking habits and smart phones.

It depends on where your priorities lie.
I just shake my head when they say 45-50 million uninsured.

When you dig deeper it's really close to about 15 million who can't afford insurance due to money. And of that 15 million probably 1-2 million who aren't offered insurance due to serious pre existing conditions. Hypertension asthma diabetes etc doesn't automatically exclude you from insurance either on individual market.

A young "poor" person who still pays even $50 month for a prepaid smartphone (boost mobile/metro pcs) plan or $100/month for post paid smartphone plan (ATT/tmobile) could easily divert that money to buying a nice compress HSA compatible plan with a much lower deductible than what's offered in the ACA exchanges for around $100-150/month and that includes preventive services way before the ACA was even signed into law.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:33 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,467,762 times
Reputation: 7274
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneftp View Post

A young "poor" person who still pays even $50 month for a prepaid smartphone (boost mobile/metro pcs) plan or $100/month for post paid smartphone plan (ATT/tmobile) could easily divert that money to buying a nice compress HSA compatible plan with a much lower deductible than what's offered in the ACA exchanges for around $100-150/month and that includes preventive services way before the ACA was even signed into law.
He/she can, and he/she should, but without a tax penalty, he/she wouldn't have.

No matter the outcome of ACA years from now, or whatever we have nationally, I do want a tax on those willfully uninsured, or else, I want all assets , including homes and cars, seized quicklyfor payment in the event the roulette wheel they spin rolls the wrong way, and they incur a large hospital bill. The tax though, needs to be raised far closer to the cost of a policy they could have bought.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:29 AM
 
14,298 posts, read 7,740,864 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotleyCrew View Post
Even though ACA was a step in the right direction and yes, something has to be done to bring down the cost of healthcare...this simply added to the cost of healthcare. People stuck in the grey area will still get sick and die. Some families are faced with buying insurance or food now. Surely this program can't be offered as a real fix.......So what we have now is people getting sick and dying where before we had people getting sick and dying...so what did we fix? In the real world the subsidies will not be sustainable for the millions of folks trying to gain entry to our country...you will end up with less and less a subsidy.
Single payer is the answer. Works in Canada. Whatever we do we the people will pay for it because nothing is free after all.
We need to get the federal government and it's army of useless, incompetent bureaucrats out of business of deciding any health care issues. Single payer would just be ObamaCare on steroids, it would be a colossally stupid move.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:33 AM
 
14,298 posts, read 7,740,864 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
He/she can, and he/she should, but without a tax penalty, he/she wouldn't have.

No matter the outcome of ACA years from now, or whatever we have nationally, I do want a tax on those willfully uninsured, or else, I want all assets , including homes and cars, seized quickly for payment in the event the roulette wheel they spin rolls the wrong way, and they incur a large hospital bill. The tax though, needs to be raised far closer to the cost of a policy they could have bought.
We do need to address the slugs in human society, who always leech off the rest of us.

If we make a law saying no one can be refused health care insurance due to preexisting conditions, we'd need to address the slugs who would go without insurance until they got sick, then drop insurance once they got better. At some point we just have to allow for health insurers and providers the right to just say no.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:33 PM
 
4,707 posts, read 3,346,369 times
Reputation: 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
We need to get the federal government and it's army of useless, incompetent bureaucrats out of business of deciding any health care issues. Single payer would just be ObamaCare on steroids, it would be a colossally stupid move.

Agreed.

The idiot in the Blight House is further proof that government does nothing with efficiency. Implementing single payer is clearly out of the grasp of someone whose career highlight has been "community organizer".
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:42 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,998,586 times
Reputation: 1957
Ooops! Another court case lost.

Court: Obama Admin "Doesn't Have the Right" to Impose HHS Mandate on Christian Colleges | LifeNews.com
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