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If our FF wanted the U$ ,to be a Christian nation, then why separation of church and state?? Also,
none of this proves they believed in forcing whatever Christian beliefs they may have had, into the US Constitution does it? Just because they are affiliated with a certain religion doesn't mean they meant to have America founded as a Christian nation. Seems they wanted to keep whatever Christian beliefs they may have had OUT of the BoR and Constitution.
The 1796 Treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "not in any sense founded on the Christian religion" Article XI.
Consider this: IF indeed the members of the First Continental Congress were all bible-believing Christians, would there ever have been a revolution at all? Doesn't the bible speak against rebellion????
Don't be fooled by cons insisting America is a Christian nation and then backing it up by pointing out that most Americans are Christian or that the founding fathers were Christians or that our motto is In God We Trust blah blah blah. Because what they're really saying is that the Christian religion should have a special status above other religions. Kind of like a state religion without it being officially called that. Two of them, Bryan Fischer and Joe Barton have even gone so far as to claim that freedom of religion only applies to Christians
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Source: Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11
The treaty was unanimously approved by the Senate on June 7, 1797, and ratified by President Adams on June 10, 1797. Under Article VI, Clause 2 of the US Constitution, once a treaty has been approved by the Senate and ratified by the President it shall have the same legal weight as the US Constitution itself and be considered "the Supreme Law of the Land."
Quote:
Ten years after the Constitutional Convention ended its work, the country assured the world that the United States was a secular state, and that its negotiations would adhere to the rule of law, not the dictates of the Christian faith. The assurances were contained in the Treaty of Tripoli of 1797 and were intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers.
If our FF wanted the U$ ,to be a Christian nation, then why separation of church and state?? Also,
none of this proves they believed in forcing whatever Christian beliefs they may have had, into the US Constitution does it? Just because they are affiliated with a certain religion doesn't mean they meant to have America founded as a Christian nation. Seems they wanted to keep whatever Christian beliefs they may have had OUT of the BoR and Constitution.
They did not want to invoke a denominational battle by allowing the Federal government to support one denomination over another. They left it up the States to craft their own Constitutions, and sure enough every single one wanted to mention God in them.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 12-27-2013 at 11:24 AM..
I don't want to repeat all the good points made by others.
I myself am not a Christian, and I do not consider the USA "Christian."
On the other hand I am not offended by the slogan "In God We Trust" because it is meaningless ... it can refer to Allah, YHWH, Brahma, Buddha, Serapis, Mithra, Ahura Mazda, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Mother Nature, etc. It doesn't establish any particular religion. Words like "creator" or "god" just hint at some other or higher power, that's all.
If the USA was a Christian country I would suppose there would be mention of Jesus Christ somewhere in the US Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, our law books; and there would be crosses in court rooms, government office buildings and classrooms in public schools.
Let's see how many of these so called "Christian values" we still have:
- Love of God: "You shall love the Lord your God with all of your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might." (an excerpt from the Shema), -Matthew 22:37
You are kidding right?
- Fidelity in marriage: "Whom God has joined together let no man put asunder"
LOL!
Renunciation of worldly goods: "Gather not your riches up upon this earth, for there your heart will be also"
Hmm, what?
- Renunciation of violence: "If a man strikes you on one cheek, turn the other cheek"
Don't remember a time that we have ever done that. Bombing the crap out other countries for no reason must not be considered as "violence."
- Forgiveness of sins: "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us"
They are forgiven once they are dead.
- Unconditional love: "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you".
We send our love with bombs and bullets. :-)
So tell me again we are a Christian country? No we aren't Christian country; we are simply human country.
I don't want to repeat all the good points made by others.
I myself am not a Christian, and I do not consider the USA "Christian."
On the other hand I am not offended by the slogan "In God We Trust" because it is meaningless ... it can refer to Allah, YHWH, Brahma, Buddha, Serapis, Mithra, Ahura Mazda, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Mother Nature, etc. It doesn't establish any particular religion. Words like "creator" or "god" just hint at some other or higher power, that's all.
If the USA was a Christian country I would suppose there would be mention of Jesus Christ somewhere in the US Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, our law books; and there would be crosses in court rooms, government office buildings and classrooms in public schools.
It depends on how you look at it. Legally the US is a secular nation. However, population-wise, there is no doubt that the majority of the population are Christians. Thus, in that sense, the US is a Christian nation as much as Egypt is a Muslim nation. Even though both nations are legally secular.
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