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Old 12-29-2013, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,092,469 times
Reputation: 21738

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Then you raise taxes to cover the shortfall..Universal healthcare dont come free, taxes pay for it.As a result every one is covered from cradle to grave. Personally living in a place that has universal healthcare (Canada)......
, doing nothing but spewing useless anecdotal nothingness, while dodging and deflecting the failures of their universal coverage....

....which apparently is only universal for some Canadians.

However, only 37% of the procedures overall were completed within the requested waiting time.

The risks of waiting for cardiac catheterization: a prospective study


Did your taxes cover them?

No.

Manitoba kills cardiac care unit, consolidates services at single site

However, attitudes changed when people on the waiting list started dying — there have been 11 deaths since 1999 — and both the Liberals and Conservatives demanded Chomiak's resignation. The last straw appears to have been the death of Diane Gorsuch, 58, who died in February after spending more than 2 years awaiting surgery. Thirteen days after she died, the review was announced.


Manitoba kills cardiac care unit, consolidates services at single site

I wonder what will happen when people in Vermont start going to other States for healthcare.

Looks like loads of fun cradle-to-grave....

Mircea

Last edited by CaseyB; 12-30-2013 at 04:29 AM.. Reason: name calling

 
Old 12-29-2013, 09:27 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,644,082 times
Reputation: 18304
I am good tho if states want to set it up and pay for it. People are free to go outside for cash as in many European countries where private care cash is taken.
 
Old 12-29-2013, 09:38 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,390,011 times
Reputation: 4798
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Then you raise taxes to cover the shortfall..Universal healthcare dont come free, taxes pay for it.As a result every one is covered from cradle to grave.
Personally living in a place that has universal healthcare (Canada)i dont find the taxes exorbitant and its comforting to know me and my family are totally covered if we ever need it.I doubt there are many if any Canadians who would want to scrap the Canadian healthcare system for the American version of healthcare.
There's another place where you can get "healthcare security" and "housing security" along with "food security." It's called prison and you're welcome to join in with the inmates anytime you like. Just leave me out of your sick control-freak fantasies.
 
Old 12-29-2013, 10:02 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 5,451,202 times
Reputation: 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZcardinal402 View Post
Hypothetically, if the single payer experiment in Vermont were to be a cost-cutting success...would the right accept a state managed single payer system? Meaning every state manage it's own universal healthcare system? Now, I know that Vermont is a unique example...it's fairly wealthy, has low unemployment, has a lot of progressive support, and most importantly is very small...but it's still an interesting endeavor.

The reason I'm posing this question is that when I hear members of the GOP discuss the merits of single-payer healthcare, a common objection is the poor management ability of the federal government and the difficulty in managing such a large sector of the economy. However, at the state level it would be considerably more concentrated and theoretically easier to manage. So...if the federal government were to simply say...by the end of 2020...every state must provide universal, single-payer healthcare. We don't care how you do it...which channel it goes through...as long as it is done...would the right ever support that?

Can Vermont's Single-Payer System Fix What Ails American Healthcare? - Sean McElwee - The Atlantic
The 10th amendment means that states are free to run their healthcare systems however they want. Whether we like it or not is up to the individual but I think you will find most constitutional conservatives would accept a state run single payer system. I would vote against it because I am opposed to systems which deny people freedom. However, I would not challenge a state's authority to run a single payer the system the way I challenge the federal government's authority. There is no provision whatsoever in the constitution for the federal government to run a mandatory healthcare system, and no provision whatsoever in the constitution which precludes a state government from running a mandatory healthcare system.

That's the point that seems to escape you. The federal government constitutionally prohibited from running a single payer system. Whether it is hard to manage or easy to manage isn't the point. The point is the federal government has no authority to do it.
 
Old 12-29-2013, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,622 posts, read 26,292,175 times
Reputation: 12634
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
The most notable objection from the right-wing to healthcare reform isn't format, but rather is with regard to the individual impact on each of them, personally. They generally abide a callous disregard for those most vulnerable in society and so those that either won't personally benefit, or think they'll somehow soon get to a place where they won't need to benefit, from healthcare reform, will object to it in whatever form it comes, for no reason other than because it benefits others and has a price tag.

As of Dec 11, Obamacare website had signed-up 365,000 people for private plans and 803,000 for Medicaid while 5,000,000 lost their insurance because of Obamacare.

Thanks for the compassion bUU!
 
Old 12-29-2013, 10:23 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,961,336 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
As of Dec 11, Obamacare website had signed-up 365,000 people for private plans and 803,000 for Medicaid while 5,000,000 lost their insurance because of Obamacare.

Thanks for the compassion bUU!
Cant wait to hear about all of the compassion which is coming our way next year when the employer mandate kicks in..
 
Old 12-29-2013, 10:34 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,644,082 times
Reputation: 18304
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Cant wait to hear about all of the compassion which is coming our way next year when the employer mandate kicks in..
My did it year ago October. Lots of information around and easy to compare your plan to mandated coverage. Its the excise tax and other parts effecting it that are hard to figure.For example the tax on all medical devices increases cost to cover since it broadly define and covers a lot of medical things used even to surgeries implants not taken from body.
 
Old 12-29-2013, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,082 posts, read 14,284,799 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Great, another freaking Canadian propaganda con-artist who has no clue, doing nothing but spewing useless anecdotal nothingness, while dodging and deflecting the failures of their universal coverage....

....which apparently is only universal for some Canadians.

However, only 37% of the procedures overall were completed within the requested waiting time.

The risks of waiting for cardiac catheterization: a prospective study


Did your taxes cover them?

No.

Manitoba kills cardiac care unit, consolidates services at single site

However, attitudes changed when people on the waiting list started dying — there have been 11 deaths since 1999 — and both the Liberals and Conservatives demanded Chomiak's resignation. The last straw appears to have been the death of Diane Gorsuch, 58, who died in February after spending more than 2 years awaiting surgery. Thirteen days after she died, the review was announced.

Manitoba kills cardiac care unit, consolidates services at single site

I wonder what will happen when people in Vermont start going to other States for healthcare.

Looks like loads of fun cradle-to-grave....

Mircea
Lol! Just as I thought. You trot out the same old cardiac cath argument, citing the same Diane woman, over and over and over and over and over again.
Like nothing ever goes wrong with healthcare in the US and all the outcomes are perfect.
You call us clueless, but let me ask you this......how much experience have you had with Canadian healthcare, up close and personal? I'll bet the answer is absolutely zero, yet you never shut your pie hole as to how awful it is.
 
Old 12-30-2013, 04:04 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,077 posts, read 10,673,481 times
Reputation: 8793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostly1 View Post
Quote:
They generally abide a callous disregard for those most vulnerable in society and so those that either won't personally benefit, or think they'll somehow soon get to a place where they won't need to benefit, from healthcare reform, will object to it in whatever form it comes, for no reason other than because it benefits others and has a price tag.
I'm impressed. It must have taken decades of research to develop an all-inclusive definition of "right-wing," poll everyone in the country to ...
It must have taken you no time at all to pervert what others say (i.e., "generally") into something you're capable of arguing against (i.e., "all-inclusive"). Gosh, that sort of nonsensically evasive retort is so easy to spew that a child could do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
As of Dec 11...
So in other words you didn't bother to get the final numbers before regurgitating the offensively egoistic right-wing rhetoric, and even then inanely blamed the compassionate initiative for the disruption wrought by its opponents, and the inefficacy wrought by corporate incompetents pre-qualified by a conservative administration. Thanks for making clear that reasonable consideration of the matter doesn't enter into it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Obamacare...
And in typical right-winger style, insisting on defining the "all-inclusive" by regarding just one initiative, and thereby blinding your perspective to anything other than the initiative so riddled with petulant right-wing obstructionism that it doesn't look anything close to what the conservatives who proposed it initially, and the liberals who put it forward more recently, aimed it to be.

So let me get this straight. Compassionate people do the right thing. Self-centered cretins defecate on it, spend years and years doing little more than trying to make it not happen and make it fail if it does happen, and right-wingers think that that indicates something wrong with the compassionate people rather than the self-centered cretins. I think that crystallizes the nature of the corruption of the perspectives of the right-wing. Thanks for your assistance in that regard.

Last edited by bUU; 12-30-2013 at 04:16 AM..
 
Old 12-30-2013, 04:08 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,127,242 times
Reputation: 30999
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
Lol! Just as I thought. You trot out the same old cardiac cath argument, citing the same Diane woman, over and over and over and over and over again.
Like nothing ever goes wrong with healthcare in the US and all the outcomes are perfect.
You call us clueless, but let me ask you this......how much experience have you had with Canadian healthcare, up close and personal? I'll bet the answer is absolutely zero, yet you never shut your pie hole as to how awful it is.
Hard to have conversations with people who just call others names, cherry pick the same old links all because they are desperate for their own countries attempt at healthcare reform to fail, Seems to these people everything must fail
To answer the original topics Question,,No chance.The straw man of why should my taxes pay for your healthcare and the ever present danger of socialism will never allow these people to get the concept of a nationwide healthcare system.
Some reading for member Mircea on Americas supposedly perfect medical system.
https://www.google.ca/#q=major+medic...es&safe=active
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