Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ha! That's funny. It brings to mind a news report I watched a couple of months ago where red heads were being discriminated against in Britain. I think they were called Ginger Heads and the practice was called gingerism.
It just makes you wonder. It seems people will always try to discriminate against someone for some reason. Crazy.
I am screwed then; I have strawberry blond hair and was born with a 'Hispanic/East Indian/Arabic' sounding surname yet I am literally 'white'.
I've seen more than a few cases in my 10 years in the US Postal Service (my "wife of color" did 22 years), of persons of color who spoke proper English, had a good work ethic, and generally conducted themselves like proper human beings, being accused by OTHER persons of color--(often of the SAME color)---0f "acting like members of the non-marginalized dominant groups". These persons of color seemed to be inferring that if you ACTED PROPERLY, spoke coherently, did your share of the work assigned, lived a quiet life, and spoke highly of your spouse, you weren't REALLY a person of color. The only way, in their estimation, to be a REAL person of color was to have a foul mouth, a vocabulary of 25 words, and frequent run-ins with Postal management, landlords, and the police.
It made me feel sorry for those OTHER persons of color who were being ostracized by persons of their OWN color, for acting, shall we say, "colorless". It made me wonder how a well-meaning person of color could hope to ever succeed, if OTHER persons of the SAME color gave him the "cold shoulder" for being guilty of nothing more than "doing (what seemed to ME like) the right thing". It made these hard working persons of color, in the eyes of their peer group, seem no better than members of the non-marginalized dominant group.
Macmeal, I was not planning on responding to any more of these posts, but I can appreciate the way you express your position in the last post, even though I'm not entirely sure what that position is.
the only response I can offer is that, if you are a genuinely open-minded and conscientious, it won't be too difficult for you to understand how certain negative cultural elements (memes) can develop over long periods of marginalization, such as the internalization of a negative self-image. That's what I think is really at the root of the phenomenon you're describing. And, if we want to progress as a society, it seems the only logical thing to ask ourselves is how do we as a group and as individuals stop supporting the promotion of these negative self-images for traditionally marginalized people.
But, that's if you actually want to contribute to solving a problem rather than simply complaining about it.
Last edited by blue pekoe; 11-30-2007 at 06:06 PM..
Reason: addition
Macmeal, I was not planning on responding to any more of these posts, but I can appreciate the way you express your position in the last post, even though I'm not entirely sure what that position is.
the only response I can offer is that, if you are a genuinely open-minded and conscientious, it won't be too difficult for you to understand how certain negative cultural elements (memes) can develop over long periods of marginalization, such as the internalization of a negative self-image. That's what I think is really at the root of the phenomenon you're describing. And, if we want to progress as a society, it seems the only logical thing to ask ourselves is how do we as a group and as individuals stop supporting the promotion of these negative self-images for traditionally marginalized people.
But, that's if you actually want to contribute to solving a problem rather than simply complaining about it.
Self-loathing is DEFINITELY part of the problem--maybe the most tragic part. But other than patiently "wait"--perhaps for generations--I don't know what to do about it. We've had 40 years of "help" in the form of government programs. Too little "help", and you're "mistreating" folks. Too MUCH help, and you're being condescending. And EITHER ONE can cause anger, resentment,etc. Try to treat people as individuals, and some get "left out". Treat them as a "group", and you REALLY open up a can of worms.
Lastly, you really can't, in our culture, demand all sorts of "help", and entitlements, and at the same time bemoan the fact that you're not being "respected"....it just doesn't work that way, at least not in the competitive culture we have here.
Frankly, I don't have any encouraging answers, Thanks for your thoughts, though.
I don't think we necessarily make situations better by "throwing money" at them, although sometimes money can help. But, what you seemed to bring up in your post is a problem that is rooted in people's psyche. Ultimately, each person must decide for himself to let go of the negative and embrace the positive, to stop plugging into negative self-images in this case. So, let's not make matters worse by re-enforcing stereotypes and negative images. It's not my responsibility to solve other people's self-image problems, but I think that if I can respond to people in a way that acknowledges their humanity it can help them acknowledge it too. Smiles can also work wonders on the human spirit.
I don't think we necessarily make situations better by "throwing money" at them, although sometimes money can help. But, what you seemed to bring up in your post is a problem that is rooted in people's psyche. Ultimately, each person must decide for himself to let go of the negative and embrace the positive, to stop plugging into negative self-images in this case. So, let's not make matters worse by re-enforcing stereotypes and negative images. It's not my responsibility to solve other people's self-image problems, but I think that if I can respond to people in a way that acknowledges their humanity it can help them acknowledge it too. Smiles can also work wonders on the human spirit.
All too often when a 'person of color'; and I am tossing White hillbillies in there as well strives to better him or herself, oftentimes the 'society' of the above groups does its level best to keep the achiever down------because said striver's can-do attitude tends to make the others feel really foolish.
Alot of good points. I think ultimately when we live in urban areas like NYC, LA, etc...it seems that people of color are the ONLY ones with these social ills. But when you travel the country, you realize that there are a vast number of poor whites with the same social ills all over the country that have had ALL the advantages of white priviledge and yet remain on the bottom rung...with all the dysfucntions and ignorance that comes with that.
However, the precentages remain higher among those of color, so therefore there is clearly another factor at play. I believe the historical second class treatement and harsh segregation of the last 40 years has created a subculture that now cannot integrate/participate in society's rules and norms..which is what you see today. Remember that when the vast majority of these people came to this country, they came wearing suits, respectful, hardworking, motivated, and with families that were the future of this couintry. In that time however, the massive isolation and segregation, and withdrawal of everything that made this society so great (the resources, opportunities, and climbing the ladder) all vanished for these people.
What we have today are the results of these deplorable actions. I am unsure how likely the possibility of true integration is for much of the hardcore innercity people, but I do know that the profound amount of "assistance" has ultimately led to dependence and a lack of self-reliance and motivation..with a few being able to really improve their lives with these programs.
I agree with that statement..however I don't like the salad bowl for a couple reasons. The salad bowl has different fruits, vegatables, meats, breads, etc....we are not all that different...i.e. we are all tomatoes...we just are different kinds of tomatoes with differernt colors, flavors, needs, grown in different areas.
Also a salad bowl is far too healthy to be what this country has become...so considering all these factors...I believe America is no longer a melting pot, but a dozen donuts!
In my opinion crime is related to poverty and urban dwelling. Your worst crime comes from highly populated poor neighborhoods. In the U.S. environments like these are usually minority dominated. It's not cultural, its economic. If your black or latino you don't grow up aspiring to be a criminal. Its just too often people grow up in these environments and become lost in the seemingly neverending cycle.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
