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Old 01-10-2014, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,097,852 times
Reputation: 7875

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Nobody is arguing that. If the revenue model of a business is such that you can only offer wages that nobody will accept as compensation for work, then you clearly don't have a business that needs employees, or at least not as many as you think. This is the case for a lot of business, small, megacorp and all points in between. A lot of workers out there are simply not necessary, and are on a private sector welfare program that is jokingly referred to as employment. They are normally identified during downsizings and relocations offshore.

I don't hire anyone to do anything for less than a specific amount, which is typically hell and gone above the minimum wage, and I won't do work (under normal, non-life threatening circumstances anyway) for wages that aren't hell and gone above the minimum wage.

But all of this we are talking about is voluntary. As either employee or employer, I have wage standards. So do most people. Which is why arbitrary wage floors on a national, blanket scale are ridiculous. Most people either pay well or do the work themselves, unless it is a huge volume operation, and then the wage is lower but is augmented by benefits and OPPORTUNITY, which hamfisted minimum wage laws totally ignore.
If most people pay above minimum wage, then you shouldn't need to worry about minimum wage unless you do pay minimum wage or wish you could pay below minimum wage.

 
Old 01-10-2014, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,097,852 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
That was not a question from you rather a comment.

1. If someone bought 40 items at Walmart and he doesn't care about the extra $10, it's fine to introduce inflation? You now admit raising the minimum wage is inflation? Inflation is a nasty game as nobody wins. Do I understand you correctly that you are willing to screw everybody from the poor to the rich by introducing inflation just to feel good?

2. If someone bought 40 items at Walmart, why should or would he not care about the extra $10? When he buys the same 40 items to feed his family every week and he's on a strict budge, he will for damn sure notice that $10 increase! Why is it up to you to tell us we should or should not care about the price increase? But again, it's ok to screw him, right?
How much is 40 items at Wal-mart?

Also inflation isn't always a bad thing and often times deflation is a bad thing, but raising the minimum wage isn't directly tied to inflation.
 
Old 01-10-2014, 07:52 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,522,222 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
No one is arguing that. All I am saying is if you can't afford to pay people at least minimum wage, then you probably shouldn't have employees because then you would be running a bad business model that was destined to fail.
What? Plenty businesses are run by paying people far less than the minimum wage. Think agriculture, construction, and restaurants. They are heavily filled with legal and illegal immigrants making $1-$5/hour and those businesses are successfully turning big profits.

The minimum wage is purely a political farce.
 
Old 01-10-2014, 07:53 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,522,222 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
How much is 40 items at Wal-mart?

Also inflation isn't always a bad thing and often times deflation is a bad thing, but raising the minimum wage isn't directly tied to inflation.
Please provide me an example how the minimum wage is not directly tied to inflation.
 
Old 01-10-2014, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,097,852 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
What? Plenty businesses are run by paying people far less than the minimum wage. Think agriculture, construction, and restaurants. They are heavily filled with legal and illegal immigrants making $1-$5/hour and those businesses are successfully turning big profits.

The minimum wage is purely a political farce.
Restaurants get away with it because their employees make tips. Construction gets away with it by paying employees under the table of for less hours than they actually work. And agricultural gets away with it by either hiring illegals or using one of the many loopholes that allows them to pay pennies on the dollar to employees.

The sad thing is most of our agricultural is owned by billionaires who use those loopholes to increase their profits at the expense of their employees that work for less than minimum wage.
 
Old 01-10-2014, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,097,852 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Please provide me an example how the minimum wage is not directly tied to inflation.
Every year inflation went up and minimum wage stayed the same. We can raise it or not or even lower it and that will not have an effect of what inflation does. There are much bigger factors with inflation and deflation.
 
Old 01-10-2014, 07:59 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,522,222 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
How much is 40 items at Wal-mart?

Also inflation isn't always a bad thing and often times deflation is a bad thing, but raising the minimum wage isn't directly tied to inflation.
Didn't I show you this before and you still don't get it?

Seattle area nimrods want to raise the minimum wage to 15/hr


Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
LOL!!!

Please, I hope you are not serious. Raising minimum wage arbitrarily is no different from printing money.

$5 a loaf of bread = $1 profit + $2 material cost + $2 labor.

Assuming the current minimum wage is $10, then adding 50% increase to $15 would be like this:

$1 profit + $2 material cost + $3 labor = $6 a loaf of bread.

The $2 material cost may also go up as the minimum wage for people producing all the materials must also be raised, making the bread even more expensive.

$1 profit + $3 material cost + $3 labor = $7 a loaf of bread.

Since now the company making the bread must allocate a lot more money to cover increased material cost and labor, they need to maintain at least the same level of profit, so the calculation would go:

$1.5 profit + $3 material cost + $3 labor = $7.5 a loaf of bread.

You can't afford $5 bread with $10/hour wage, can you afford a $7.5 bread with $15/hour wage?
 
Old 01-10-2014, 08:01 AM
 
13,853 posts, read 5,564,410 times
Reputation: 8533
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
If most people pay above minimum wage, then you shouldn't need to worry about minimum wage unless you do pay minimum wage or wish you could pay below minimum wage.
It's not my worry directly, it's a worry about the two guaranteed, expected, reliable, predictable and inevitable negative outcomes - increased unemployment among those who can least afford to be unemployed, and inflation for the entire populace, all because some handful of people are making a wage they and their employer find agreeable, but someone in some distant ivory tower finds distasteful.

That is what we are talking about. Minimum wage laws are not at the request of employee or employer, but of some distant interloper who thinks they are solving some societal problem. If the employee was dissatisfied with their wage, they would ask for a raise or seek employment elsewhere. If the employer saw an increase in the value of an employee over and above the wage they pay someone, they would increase the compensation in order to retain that employee.

Since less than 1% of the full time working population makes the minimum wage now (including the folks at dreaded WalMart), it isn't anywhere as bad as you and the other proponents make it out to be. If 99% of the employers are not doing this thing you dread, why do you dread it so fiercely?
 
Old 01-10-2014, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,097,852 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Didn't I show you this before and you still don't get it?

Seattle area nimrods want to raise the minimum wage to 15/hr
If it costs you $2 to make a loaf of bread and $2 for labor then you are making bread wrong.
 
Old 01-10-2014, 08:04 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,522,222 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Restaurants get away with it because their employees make tips. Construction gets away with it by paying employees under the table of for less hours than they actually work. And agricultural gets away with it by either hiring illegals or using one of the many loopholes that allows them to pay pennies on the dollar to employees.

The sad thing is most of our agricultural is owned by billionaires who use those loopholes to increase their profits at the expense of their employees that work for less than minimum wage.
Get away with what? The political farce? If you send police to chase them down, I assure you it will end up like this: they will raise the price so that then can remain profitable, and you will be paying for it, which defeats the purpose of raising the minimum wage to begin with.
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