U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-16-2014, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,438 posts, read 28,297,785 times
Reputation: 29025

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
The discussion is interesting but if 'facts' and stats ( from both sides) aren't pertinent, they don't help.
Lumping pneumonia in with flu does not in any way represent a statistic to support your side of the issue. For instance..
"
[SIZE=3]
[SIZE=3]
[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
In 2006, pneumonia and influenza combined ranked as
the nation’s eighth leading cause of death with 56,326. Pneumonia
consistently accounts for the overwhelming majority of deaths between

the two, as 55,477 people died of pneumonia in 2006.15
"
Pneumonia may be the result of many things having nothing to do with the flu.
But a significant number of bacterial pneumonias occur in lungs weakened by influenza. Don't use the difficulty in counting them to imply they do not happen. They do, and often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic View Post
The younger the adult, the more vaccines they've had.
That is not necessarily true. My husband was in the Army. He got many more vaccines than children get, including those that are not given to kids at all, including plague, for example.

 
Old 01-16-2014, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Florida
19,823 posts, read 19,921,769 times
Reputation: 23232
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
But a significant number of bacterial pneumonias occur in lungs weakened by influenza. Don't use the difficulty in counting them to imply they do not happen. They do, and often.


.
Probably a great deal of people with flu end up with pneumonia but that does not excuse insinuating that flu is a substantial contributor to the statistic for the 8th leading cause of death.

" Pneumonia consistently accounts for the overwhelming majority of deaths between
the two, as 55,477 people died of pneumonia " (Out of 56,326)
 
Old 01-16-2014, 01:06 PM
 
10,102 posts, read 6,328,371 times
Reputation: 8425
I have to admit that I didn't get the flu shot when I was young either. I can't expose my family, so I do now. Anywho, I came back home from CO and find the flu is really bad here. Another young one: Expectant mother battling influenza loses her child | wfaa.com Dallas - Fort Worth
 
Old 01-16-2014, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,438 posts, read 28,297,785 times
Reputation: 29025
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Probably a great deal of people with flu end up with pneumonia but that does not excuse insinuating that flu is a substantial contributor to the statistic for the 8th leading cause of death.

" Pneumonia consistently accounts for the overwhelming majority of deaths between
the two, as 55,477 people died of pneumonia " (Out of 56,326)
I guess it depends on what you consider substantial. Also, some deaths coded only as pneumonia happen to folks who also had influenza. It just was not documented.

The problem is that because of the statistical modeling used, some posters here have decided that the CDC is lying about how serious influenza is. Here is the CDC site again:

CDC - Estimating Seasonal Influenza-Associated Deaths in the United States: CDC Study Confirms Variability of Flu | Seasonal Influenza (Flu)

People who get flu not only get superimposed pneumonia and die, they increase their risk of having things like heart attacks and strokes. That leads to an estimate "that from the 1976-1977 season to the 2006-2007 flu season, flu-associated deaths ranged from a low of about 3,000 to a high of about 49,000 people. Death certificate data and weekly influenza virus surveillance information was used to estimate how many flu-related deaths occurred among people whose underlying cause of death was listed as respiratory or circulatory disease on their death certificate."

I consider even 4000 to be substantial. Most years recently the estimate has been 30,000 +.

If you have a heart attack while you have the flu, the odds of dying from it are increased. It's harder to treat the heart attack.
 
Old 01-16-2014, 03:48 PM
 
12,886 posts, read 15,445,468 times
Reputation: 14854
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

Why do you feel the need to propagate falsehoods?
That's your department...not mine
 
Old 01-16-2014, 03:53 PM
 
12,886 posts, read 15,445,468 times
Reputation: 14854
Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
I have to admit that I didn't get the flu shot when I was young either. I can't expose my family, so I do now.
Do you get your yearly shot from a multi dose bottle?..you know, the ones with all the mercury?
 
Old 01-16-2014, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,438 posts, read 28,297,785 times
Reputation: 29025
Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
I have to admit that I didn't get the flu shot when I was young either. I can't expose my family, so I do now. Anywho, I came back home from CO and find the flu is really bad here. Another young one: Expectant mother battling influenza loses her child | wfaa.com Dallas - Fort Worth
This case is a very good example of the toll influenza takes. The baby's death certificate will most likely say he died from immaturity --- too premature to be saved. Influenza is rarely passed directly to the fetus.

CDC H1N1 Flu | In The News - Question & Answer: 2009 H1N1 and Pregnancy


Do any of us doubt that influenza is actually what killed him?
 
Old 01-16-2014, 04:07 PM
 
1,634 posts, read 1,021,946 times
Reputation: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
I guess it depends on what you consider substantial. Also, some deaths coded only as pneumonia happen to folks who also had influenza. It just was not documented.

The problem is that because of the statistical modeling used, some posters here have decided that the CDC is lying about how serious influenza is. Here is the CDC site again:

CDC - Estimating Seasonal Influenza-Associated Deaths in the United States: CDC Study Confirms Variability of Flu | Seasonal Influenza (Flu)

People who get flu not only get superimposed pneumonia and die, they increase their risk of having things like heart attacks and strokes. That leads to an estimate "that from the 1976-1977 season to the 2006-2007 flu season, flu-associated deaths ranged from a low of about 3,000 to a high of about 49,000 people. Death certificate data and weekly influenza virus surveillance information was used to estimate how many flu-related deaths occurred among people whose underlying cause of death was listed as respiratory or circulatory disease on their death certificate."

I consider even 4000 to be substantial. Most years recently the estimate has been 30,000 +.

If you have a heart attack while you have the flu, the odds of dying from it are increased. It's harder to treat the heart attack.
Ultimate fear mongering award goes to.......

Stop referencing the CDC...all they do is lie, lie, lie... They are nothing but shills for big pharma.
 
Old 01-16-2014, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,438 posts, read 28,297,785 times
Reputation: 29025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin_Muzik_NJ View Post
Ultimate fear mongering award goes to.......

Stop referencing the CDC...all they do is lie, lie, lie... They are nothing but shills for big pharma.
Ultimate conspiracy theory award goes to ...

By the way, the pregnant mom in the post above did not take the vaccine.
 
Old 01-16-2014, 04:32 PM
 
11,641 posts, read 5,937,704 times
Reputation: 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
That is not necessarily true. My husband was in the Army. He got many more vaccines than children get, including those that are not given to kids at all, including plague, for example.
The Government does not want people like your husband (ex-Army) to live to full term.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top