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Actually, all polls now show the majority of Americans favor gay marriage,whether they think "homosexual acts" are immoral or not.
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Polls can be and are manipulated. The only poll that counts is at the voting booth, and the people of Oklahoma made it quite clear that they don't want same sex marriage.
I don't understand what we are fighting about. Oklahoma did not decide to have same-sex marriage. A Federal judge ruled it. This has nothing to do with Oklahoma. And I promise you, I am from Oklahoma. Oklahoma practically unanimously doesn't want same-sex marriage.
Secondly, marriage is not a right. Marriage is a privilege. It always has been, it always will be. There have always been restrictions on marriage. Such as age restrictions, blood tests. Can't marry close relatives, can't marry more than one person.
Moreover, the equal protection clause was not in the original constitution. It was in the 14th amendment. And the writers of that amendment, and the constitution, most certainly did not believe that the equal protection clause was intended to guarantee same-sex marriage. Since at the time, every single state banned same-sex marriage.
I'm getting pretty sick of the idea that the constitution doesn't mean what its creators intended it to mean. Rather, it means whatever the current courts say it means. Regardless of the fact that almost every major decision comes out split 5-4.
When are you sheeple going to stop allowing these unelected courts to do whatever they want?
As an independent I have said it for years, this is an nu-winable place for the right. If you want to die on that hill be my guest. Its not a defensible argument. Like we learned in the Vietnam war, its hard to fight someone on their home ground, you get exhausted easily and they will fight harder the closer to home you get. If two men or women want to marry it does not one thing to the life of some Christian three houses down. But the right wants to make laws that tell others how to live, what is and is not OK by their view of god and what religion they follow. Its not going to hold up. As more and more people come out, and even the likes of the heartless Dick Cheney have family that are gay, they move to the accepting phase of the argument. The pure hate side is dwindling and more and more look like the radicals they are. No one is making a law or even proposing a law saying you have to have gay sex once a year or even kiss someone of the same sex, but the right wants to make laws that do that very thing to others. If you want to preach it from your pulpit in your church and thump away at Lev. and forget all the other crazy crap BS in the bible that is your right. What you can't do is make laws telling others they have to live by the laws you think or moral based on your religion. Sorry that is just unamerican.
I think we are talking about two very different things.
"No church is being forced to have a wedding ceremony" ..... YET
No ...... you are not fighting for Civil Marriage, because Civil Marriage is already the Law in all States - that needs to be the real battle for Rights.
Bakeries are being forced out of business
Florists are being forced out of business
Any and everybody who does not agree - needs to be "punished".
Activists want more than "Civil Marriage". I've long been an advocate of Equal Laws for all Americans, including our Gay Americans. I have a Lesbian Daughter who was forced out of her job in the State of Missouri due to "moral factors" under State Law, she finally left the State to escape the Bigotry. - I feel strongly about Equal Rights for Gay Amerians
BUT ..... I disagree with this current battle - which is deliberately designed to punish each and every citizen that disagrees with what has become known as the "Gay Agenda". This is very counter productive.
Bottom Line ....... "Marriage" in the USA has been a "Civil Union" (requiring a Civil License for legality) ever since I was married in the late 60's. The DOMA laws tried to make sure that our Gay Citizens did not have the same Rights as non Gays - that needs to go away and eventually, the Courts will do that. The pendulum has swung too far in the other direction ...... now it's all about a Punishment to those who disagree with a Gay couple. Destroy their lives, take away their business, Boycott them, Riot against them. Punish those who do not become Activists for the Gays and Lesbians. Acceptance is not enough anymore - it's become a very Bizarre Take-Over movement.
I can't agree with that, and I suspect that many other supporters of Equal Rights for all Americans, including the Gay/Lesbian Americans will also start to have doubts. Time to get back to basics and decide what is really important. Is it "Rights"? or is it "War" against the "other"?
It's important to decide which is more important.
What do you think this ruling allows? Civil marriage. the same civil marriage that every legally married person has to go to the court house, fill out papers, get a license to have. Please tell me what more these "activists" are doing.
DOMA has already fallen at the federal level. So there is that, but we still need the states to recognize civil marriages, before the federal government will recognize them.
Churches are protected from those evil gays by the 1st amendment. They can deny weddings for anyone for any reason. The do so now. some churches ban inter-faith marriages, some ban divorced peoples marriages, some won't do services for interracial couples, some won't even do services for black couples.
As for your bakery, florist, etc, BUSINESSES. States have laws against discrimination by businesses. Some states include sexual orientation in those laws. If a person operates a business in those states, they must follow the law. Sorry, but a persons "beliefs" do not trump the law. This is no different when the states made laws against businesses discriminating based on color of ones skin.
Maybe you need to look at the title of this thread. It is about legal civil marriage. THAT is what we are fighting for.
Tell them to hit the road. Homosexuality is a mental disease and the fact that it isn't treated as such is leaving MILLIONS of cases to go through life with a disease that can be controlled or fixed or helped in some way. I do love my kids to death. But I will not allow a homosexual in my home or near my family.
This makes me sick, and it shows what kind of person you really are. A parents love is supposed to be unconditional. I have seen what happens to these kids when their parents toss them out. I sponsored one of these kids over Thanksgiving and Christmas, because he had no family to be with. This poor child was so damaged, that he cried because someone cared enough to invite him in, and treat him like one of the family. Most of these kids end up turning to drugs, and prostitution to survive when their parents toss them out. Many of them attempt suicide, but you "love your children to death". You make me sick.
I don't understand what we are fighting about. Oklahoma did not decide to have same-sex marriage. A Federal judge ruled it. This has nothing to do with Oklahoma. And I promise you, I am from Oklahoma. Oklahoma practically unanimously doesn't want same-sex marriage.
Secondly, marriage is not a right. Marriage is a privilege. It always has been, it always will be. There have always been restrictions on marriage. Such as age restrictions, blood tests. Can't marry close relatives, can't marry more than one person.
Moreover, the equal protection clause was not in the original constitution. It was in the 14th amendment. And the writers of that amendment, and the constitution, most certainly did not believe that the equal protection clause was intended to guarantee same-sex marriage. Since at the time, every single state banned same-sex marriage.
I'm getting pretty sick of the idea that the constitution doesn't mean what its creators intended it to mean. Rather, it means whatever the current courts say it means. Regardless of the fact that almost every major decision comes out split 5-4.
When are you sheeple going to stop allowing these unelected courts to do whatever they want?
Firstly, A federal judge ruled that Oklahoma could not ban SSM.
Secondly, No statue or court ruling has ever ruled that marriage as a "privilege and not a right"
Lastly, an amendment to the US Constitution does not have to be original to the Constituion at signing to carry full status as any other Ariticle, Provision, or Bill of Rights of the Constitution.
Last edited by Chimuelojones; 01-15-2014 at 07:16 AM..
The Equal Protection Clause does two things. First it applies the 1st 10 amendments to the states, which up until that point it had not done.
Second if applies all Federal equally across all states, mainly arising from the Dredd Scott ruling in which citizenship requirements were not applied equally to all (This is why Scott was returned to MO as a slave, since he was not deemed to be a Citizen while residing freely in IL).
What the 14th Amendment does not do, is apply State Laws across State Lines. Each State still has its own Sovereign right to make its own laws in accordance with Article I sections 8-11, and 9th and 10th Amendments. If it was intended to apply laws equally across state lines, all laws of all states would be required to be uniform to afford this. The language of the 14th Amendment does not in any respect supersede the 10th Amendment reserving rights not outlined in Article Sections 8-11 of powers given to the Federal Government or Forbidden by the States, are reserved by the states and People Respectively.
Since the regulation of Marriage is not a power delegated to the Federal Government, nor is it forbidden to the States, nor outlined in any other Amendment, that power is hence reserved by the States First IAW the 10th Amendment. Since the 14th Amendment applies ONLY Federal Laws equally among the States (including the Bill Of Rights) this does not violate the equal protection Clause of the 14th amendment.
You would have better luck using the 9th amendment in your argument but still be running into a conflict and tough sell with Article I section 11 and the 10th Amendment in the way, vice the 14th which really does not apply here according to intent.
No, the 14th DOES in fact apply to state laws, No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
STATES can not deny citizens within it's jurisdiction equal protection of the laws. States have protections that are called marriage. They can not deny those protections to anyone without showing how doing so would further a compelling state interest.
In fact EVERY marriage case since Loving V Virginia, including DOMA, prop 8, Utah, and OK all cite the 14th amendment. I trust the judges opinion on how the constitution more than your opinion, THEY are well versed in constitutional law.
Marriage perversion has nothing to do with "equality" and stop calling yourself a reverand.
Sorry Bideshi I will call myself a Reverend until the day I die... that honour was given to me after attending and graduating one on North America's largest seminaries, completing my placement and then being duly ordained by the laying on of hands by otherwise ordained minister's and bishops.
Also equal marriage is not a perversion, it is a long overdue right given to those who happen to be same gender loving; granting them the same rights and privileges when they marry their spouse, as is given to opposite gender loving persons when they marry their spouse.
I raise a toast to equality and pray it will be so in all places in my lifetime.
Tell them to hit the road. Homosexuality is a mental disease and the fact that it isn't treated as such is leaving MILLIONS of cases to go through life with a disease that can be controlled or fixed or helped in some way. I do love my kids to death. But I will not allow a homosexual in my home or near my family.
I feel sorry for your children, but more importantly I feel sorry for you. My husband has no contact with his mother because she thinks like you do. Thankfully he has me, his father, an aunt and a couple of other family members to continue to surround him with love.
While he has lost as a result of her behaviour, she has lost even more. Periodically she attempts to reach out to him, but after realising there is an agenda behind it, he cuts communication.
Having been in a similar situation with my family I know the hurt it causes but I also know how the one so callously tossed aside by one's parents can and do make family like bonds with others. In my mother's last time on earth it was obvious she regretted some of her actions, unfortunately distance, mistrust and illness prevented her from getting the peace she probably wanted. I do not wish that on anyone.
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