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I dont know. But with public education as we have now, kids are better off without it. It's a failure. No accountability, self serving jerks who look at for themselves
Oh, please. Public education is NOT a failure. No doubt about it, THIS particular school was -- and probably still is -- a disaster; however, most public schools are doing just fine. I attended public schools, my husband attended public schools (as a military kid, he attended more than most), and my kids attend public schools. Were they all perfect? Of course not, but they were all good-quality schools that gave us the foundation necessary to pursue further education in our chosen fields.
And, what is the alternative? Turn kids loose and let them fend for themselves with no supervision and educational opportunities whatsoever? Yeah, that'll work. Just what we all need, Lord of the Flies playing out on our streets.
Oh, please. Public education is NOT a failure. No doubt about it, THIS particular school was -- and probably still is -- a disaster; however, most public schools are doing just fine. I attended public schools, my husband attended public schools (as a military kid, he attended more than most), and my kids attend public schools. Were they all perfect? Of course not, but they were all good-quality schools that gave us the foundation necessary to pursue further education in our chosen fields.
And, what is the alternative? Turn kids loose and let them fend for themselves with no supervision and educational opportunities whatsoever? Yeah, that'll work. Just what we all need, Lord of the Flies playing out on our streets.
This is happening though. Lord of the Flies is not far off as you think.
Sure your kids go to a good school. Mine also went to public school but in a suburban middle class neighborhood.
NYC has had their share of public school problems going back to the 70's when I was growing up there.
The bigger an entity becomes the easier it is to hide crime, corruption, fraud, etc.
This is happening though. Lord of the Flies is not far off as you think.
Sure your kids go to a good school. Mine also went to public school but in a suburban middle class neighborhood.
NYC has had their share of public school problems going back to the 70's when I was growing up there.
The bigger an entity becomes the easier it is to hide crime, corruption, fraud, etc.
Yes, what's happening to NY schools is shameful, and I'm not going to argue with your point that complexity leaves room for corruption. That said, let me point out that more than three times as many kids in my metro region attend generally well-performing suburban schools than are enrolled in our urban district, which I don't think this is out of line with national averages. So when somebody suggests the idea of eradicating public education entirely, I am stunned at their short-sightedness. Three out four kids have access to good (or even great) public schools, but let's trash the entire system anyway? How does this make any sense whatsoever?
Yes, what's happening to NY schools is shameful, and I'm not going to argue with your point that complexity leaves room for corruption. That said, let me point out that more than three times as many kids in my metro region attend generally well-performing suburban schools than are enrolled in our urban district, which I don't think this is out of line with national averages. So when somebody suggest the idea of eradicating public education entirely, I am stunned at their short-sightedness. Three out four kids have access to good (or even great) public schools, but let's trash the entire system anyway? How does this make any sense whatsoever?
More often than not they mean the DOE's takeover of local rule.
Even here in Texas the DOE and their policies and guidelines have sway if only because of the threat to hold back Fed dollars.
IMHO the Dept of Education should only set a high level national curriculum and oversee teacher certification.
The rest should be left to the state and then region and then ISD and then individual school.
I think perhaps there are two different discussions taking place in this thread. Debating the appropriate role of the DOE is not the same thing as advocating for the eradication of public education, which was what I understood to be the point of Tilt11's recent posts.
I think perhaps there are two different discussions taking place in this thread. Debating the appropriate role of the DOE is not the same thing as advocating for the eradication of public education, which was what I understood to be the point of Tilt11's recent posts.
I would be in favor of vouchers, charters and competition to replace public schools.
The free education offered by public schools has little by the way of competition.
The charters are there and making inroads. The good ones are flourishing and the bad ones are dying from lack of students and their vouchers.
Can't say the same for public schools though.
I'm not in favor of vouchers at all. I think it leaves kids in poor circumstances out to dry. Imagine that you are a single mother working two jobs to support your elementary-age children. Your neighborhood school is circling the drain, but the state hands you a voucher with instructions to enroll your children in the good school across town.
There is no school bus to take your kids back and forth, they certainly can't walk like they did to the neighborhood school, and you don't have the time to drive them and get to work on time. Oh well, there's always public transportation. Maybe Mrs. Smith across the way can ensure the kids get to and from the bus stop safely each day. But, hmmm, how are you going to scrape together the money to buy your kids a pass? You can barely afford to keep the electric on as it is. Anyway, you'll make it work. Your fourth grader and kindergartener can manage to switch buses in the middle of town without getting lost, right? Well, they're going to have to because there is no other option.
But then, one of the kids gets sick at the good school across town, and you have to leave your minimum wage job early yet again. You rush across town to get him (and the kindergartener, because she definitely can't manage the bus alone), park him on the couch with a blanket and the remote and hope it's not serious. When you return to work, your boss is angry and demotes you to working fewer hours at odd times of the day, which conflicts with your second job. Oh, no! Now what do you do?
Is this a little dramatic? Yes, but it's not far-fetched. It's really easy for those of us in comfortable circumstances to assume that vouchers will improve things for kids stuck in bad public schools, but it really makes life much more difficult to manage for those in impoverished areas, those who work in minimum-wage positions with absolutely no job security.
I'm not in favor of vouchers at all. I think it leaves kids in poor circumstances out to dry. Imagine that you are a single mother working two jobs to support your elementary-age children. Your neighborhood school is circling the drain, but the state hands you a voucher with instructions to enroll your children in the good school across town.
There is no school bus to take your kids back and forth, they certainly can't walk like they did to the neighborhood school, and you don't have the time to drive them and get to work on time. Oh well, there's always public transportation. Maybe Mrs. Smith across the way can ensure the kids get to and from the bus stop safely each day. But, hmmm, how are you going to scrape together the money to buy your kids a pass? You can barely afford to keep the electric on as it is. Anyway, you'll make it work. Your fourth grader and kindergartener can manage to switch buses in the middle of town without getting lost, right? Well, they're going to have to because there is no other option.
But then, one of the kids gets sick at the good school across town, and you have to leave your minimum wage job early yet again. You rush across town to get him (and the kindergartener, because she definitely can't manage the bus alone), park him on the couch with a blanket and the remote and hope it's not serious. When you return to work, your boss is angry and demotes you to working fewer hours at odd times of the day, which conflicts with your second job. Oh, no! Now what do you do?
Is this a little dramatic? Yes, but it's not far-fetched. It's really easy for those of us in comfortable circumstances to assume that vouchers will improve things for kids stuck in bad public schools, but it really makes life much more difficult to manage for those in impoverished areas, those who work in minimum-wage positions with absolutely no job security.
If the public school is deemed "bad" that district must provide bus service.
I've seen it happen.
The kids all got bused to a neighboring district. The $$$ followed the kids.
It was a clear wakeup call to this district.
They cleaned house and really did get their act back together again.
I sub in this district and they are always aware of what happened.
It's even told to us subs when we come for annual training.
They will not let themselves fail like they did once before.
If the public school is deemed "bad" that district must provide bus service.
I've seen it happen.
The kids all got bused to a neighboring district. The $$$ followed the kids.
That's not how I understand traditional school vouchers to work, but I'm glad things worked out well for the kids in your system.
That's not how I understand traditional school vouchers to work, but I'm glad things worked out well for the kids in your system.
The "system" can be revamped.
Property taxes pay for the bussing so it's not new funding.
The school can be the hub where all kids go and then busses take kids to the various charters around town.
That's how many magnet schools work.
Kids go to their home district school in the am and are bussed to the magnet school across town.
Then bussed back at the end of the day and they take their regular bus home.
It's really dependent on the various groups if they really wanted change.
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