NAFTA on Steroids

[J746NEW]

Originally Posted by saltine

I see everybody is busy blaming the imaginary "other side" again.

Divide and Conquer

Republicans and Democrats duking it out, while the bankers have their hands in both sides pockets.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by J746NEW

The progressives are the social engineers of this globalist utopia where everyone will serve them and their filthy agenda while patriotism and nationalism go to the wayside.

So, Russia, China, India and Brasil are "progressives?"

Originally Posted by andywire

Perhaps you could offer further details?

Originally Posted by greywar

Clinton said this would be good for us too. I find it challenging to believe this has really been a good idea.

It's the lesser of two evils.

I'm using these numbers for the sake of argument, but your choices are do nothing, and lose 10 Million jobs, or enter into a Free Trade Agreement and lose only 5 Million jobs.

Or save 5 Millions, depending on how you look at it.

It's simple Economics.

Another way to view it is that the overseas profits gained from these free trade agreements are subsidizing your jobs in the US...which is why you still have them.

Progressively....

Mircea

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

Bush Sr was a liberal to you? Now that is a joke, though he definitely wasn't a far right wing loon.

George H is a Neo-Liberal Institutionalist.

Bill Clinton is a Neo-Liberal Institutionalist.

George W is a Neo-Liberal Institutionalist.

Obama is apparently a Neo-Liberal Institutionalist.

I'm guessing no one is seeing a pattern there over the last 20 odd years.

The difference between Classical Conservatives and Neo-Conservatives is largely the position on pre-emptive action, among things.

The differences between Classical Conservatives and Neo-Conservatives, and then Classical Liberals, is that Liberals believe Actors --- States --- are basically good and want to do the right thing, and that Collective Security is what achieves that.

Consequently, it should come as no surprise that the majority of senior military officers and non-commissioned officers are Classical Liberals, at least with respect to Foreign Policy, since Collective Security works.

Here's the problem: Collective Security crumbles as organizations disappear, like ANZUS, SEATO, Warsaw Pact and half a dozen others....

...what do you use to replace those organizations?

Well, according to Neo-Liberals, you use Multi-National Corporations (MNCs) and Non-Governmental Organizations (NGOs).

So, instead of using regional collective security organizations, you use MNCs like Procter & Gamble, General Electric, General Motors, Microsoft, McDonalds and then NGOs like the WTO, the UN, Doctors Without Borders, Amnesty International, Greenpeace, the Red Cross and the Red Crescent.

Naturally, then, Neo-Liberals will push Free Trade Agreements.

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

So who is for globalization then?

I am.

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

Thought that was a free market capitalist thing?

It is, and as it so happens, in accordance with the Laws of Economics, Capital is flowing out of the US to other States.

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

As a liberal I am against free trade and globalism like we have now, I support fair trade and regionalism.

I'm inclined to believe that you have no idea what Free Trade and Globalism are.

If it wasn't for Brasi, Russia, India and China, there wouldn't be any Globalism.

The reason I mention that is like so many on this Forum, you falsely believe US corporations are driving Globalism, when in fact, that is not even remotely true.

Globalism is driven entirely 100% by Brasil, Russia, China and India.....US corporations are merely reacting to the rapidly evolving situation, which came upon them totally unexpectedly.

Originally Posted by SourD

Doing business with the globe is not a bad thing, but globalism in the Progressive mindset is ALL about leveling the playing field and exporting our wealth to other countries.

How did you acquire that wealth in the first place?

You stole it. You murdered to get it. You enslaved and oppressed people to get it. You denied people the rights you have to get it.

Originally Posted by SourD

"Managed Decline" is what it's REALLY called.

That's good...I like that, except that isn't happening because Left-Wingers keep interfering.

Originally Posted by SourD

Also, having multinational corporations with foreign shareholders operating in America isn't that good for our economy, they don't care about American workers, they ONLY care about sucking as much money out of our country as possible and vice-versa.

So.....how's it feel? Does it feel good?

When you were bleeding other States dry of their wealth, did you give a damn about their workers?

Hell no.

Who built your telephone system?

You didn't built that....Mexicans and Nicaraguans and Cubans and Dominicans and Hondurans and Guatemalans built it. You stole their wealth. Engineers in the oil fields in Mexico....I'm talking about White people whose parents came from Spain, France, Belgium, Italy and such, were educated at universities in Europe and/or your own universities in the US, you wouldn't pay them anything. They filed a grievance. You laughed at them. They sued. You laughed at them. The Mexican Supreme Court said you had to pay comparable wages/salaries. You still laughed. President Cardenas said he'd seize US oil company assets. You laughed him. And then President Cardenas really did seize your assets, and you call him a "Commie."

That's only half the story...the other half is US oil companies committed fraud and refused to pay taxes owed.

Who built your interstate highway system?

You didn't built that....Iranians, Iraqis, Greeks and Cubans built that.

National Sugar and United Fruit pay their field workers in Central America $0.90 per day for a 10-12 hour day with no over-time pay, but Cuban workers only get paid $0.30 per day for a 10-12 hour day (and no over-time pay).

Castro asks that United Fruit (Chiquita) and National Sugar pay comparable wages, and you try to murder him. And then he seizes assets for fraud and tax evasion, and you really step up your attempts to murder him and invade Cuba.

Dude, you ought to be thankful and get down on your knees.

Nobody is murdering your presidents or over-throwing your government or installing puppet-dictators or bank-rolling a secret police apparatus that is arresting you on trumped up charges, imprisoning and torturing you; no one is denying you Freedom of Speech; no one is shutting down your newspapers, radio stations or TV stations; soldiers aren't gunning you down while you peaceably assemble....

....man you are getting off easy.

Originally Posted by SourD

We need to halt these trade agreements and manufacture our OWN stuff for our OWN people and export the left overs.

That isn't possible, for reasons I've explained umpteen times.

Originally Posted by SourD

For example, for as many cars as we have on the roads, why do we import tires from China? Why don't we make them here and sell them here?

You cannot manufacture tires in the US and export them to the rest of the world, but you can manufacture tires in China and export them to the rest of the world.

Eventually, you will be manufacturing tires not in China, but rather in India or Pakistan or Bangladesh and exporting them to the rest of the world.

And eventually, you will be manufacturing tires not in India or Pakistan or Bangladesh, but instead in Tajikistan, or Turkmenistan or Uzbekistan or Kyrgyzstan or Kazakhstan and exporting them to the rest of the world.

And then eventually, you will be manufacturing tires not in Tajikistan, or Turkmenistan or Uzbekistan or Kyrgyzstan or Kazakhstan, but in Ethiopia, Sudan, Somalia, Congo, Niger, Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, Namibia, Mozambique and exporting them to the rest of the world.

Originally Posted by SourD

Why do nuts grown in California mainly go to foreign countries while we import those same nuts from foreign countries to sell to our people?

I don't know anything about that, so I won't comment.

Originally Posted by SourD

We should be selling homegrown goods to OUR people FIRST and think about export after WE are taken care of. Tariffs are another thing that is lacking and is killing our economy.

You cannot do that.

Well, okay, that's not entirely true.

You could do it, but Americans don't have the courage.

Are you okay with the late 1940s/early 1950s?

I'm talking about Standard of Living.....multi-family households, not everyone has a car, those that do have only one car per family, not everyone has a TV, not everyone has a telephone, and many that do have telephones, share them through a system called "party-lines"....smaller houses....smaller apartments.....kids sharing bedrooms...no shopping on Sundays.....very few 24-hour anything...fewer sports franchises....majority of Americans do not or cannot go to college....

...I can dig it...can you?

You don't know what you're asking, and when you get, you will not want it.

You cannot win this game; stalemate is the best you can do. You ought work toward electing a leader that will help guide the federation through these times.

This business of someone getting paid $26.75/hour and having the tax-payers foot the bill for their rent (through HUD Section 8) has just got to stop. That person ---being single --- needs to share an apartment or move back in with mummy and daddy.

All those turds earning $15/hour and having tax-payers pay their rent (through HUD Section 8) needs to stop.

Give me Food Stamps because I'm entitled to a cell-phone and internet has to end.

You should pay the visit to my doctor's office because I don't wanna has to end.

Like I said way back in 2007...the world is changing....you can't stop it....adapt or suffer the consequences. You all need to re-invent yourselves, because clinging to the past isn't going to work, especially when the past was an illusion built on a house of cards with smoke and mirrors in the first place.

Sadly, your "federal" government is going to cause more problems without ever providing any solutions, so I don't you can do about that. Maybe secession is the answer.

Keep your options open....

Mircea

[GregW]

Micera - Excellent essay. I want to think about it before I answer except to ask why some of our trading "partners" have tariffs and other manners of making imports from our country more expensive than they have to be and why we should not retaliate in kind?

[J746NEW]

Republicans Join Democrats in Opposing Fast Track Trade Legislation Obamatrade


Republicans Join Democrats in Opposing Fast Track Trade Legislation, Obamatrade ← Flush the TPP!

This is essentially protected markets granting monopoly power to certain large corporations—Mousewitz, Disney—so that Mickey Mouse will live forever,” Ellis tells In These Times, in a reference to the TPP’s intellectual property chapter. “It’s managed trade to grant privileges to the corporatist insiders who have lobbyists, who are sitting at the negotiating table and have access.”

Within the larger scope of the conservative movement, or of business lobbyist circles, the coalition represents a small minority with limited political power. Despite its portentous title, the U.S. Business and Industry Council is no Chamber of Commerce—it represents companies committed to the “national interest,” not the agenda of large multinationals intent on maximizing global profits. The Eagle Forum, a couple of decades removed from its heyday, is no Heritage Foundation. The latter, which maintains considerable sway over House Republicans, haspraised the TPP and other free trade agreements. (Heritage did not respond to a request for comment on this story.)

Small and Medium Business will suffer but the Big Corporate Conglomerates in the back pockets of politicians will grow their monopoly's even bigger.

[BentBow]

Things imported into the USA, that could be made here with the resources we have, should have a tariff placed upon them to make them competitive to US made stuff. Not so free trade, that they are able to undercut the regulated businesses here by leaps and bounds, even with the cost of shipping logistics.

[BentBow]

Making stuff has always kept America strong in the past. We were always basically self sufficient. Tariffs have been reduced to zero, over the last 100 years, with that New World Order crap..

[lookb4youcross]

The TPP has been crafted in secret, that is always the top reason to oppose anything when its created that way. Here is a little bit on it https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp

[J746NEW]

Originally Posted by Mircea

George H is a Neo-Liberal Institutionalist.


....man you are getting off easy.





Mircea

This is quite an informative post Mircea but there is one thing you are missing.
We live in a Corporatocracy where 99% of the citizens have no say in our government.

This is all well and good since we are not a democracy but that leaves the other 1% corporate citizens that have control over our government when as a constitutional republic they should not.

You can point the finger at corporate influence in our government for the dastardly deeds performed in the past such as Chiquita Banana and so on and even now, you see, it is them that are reaping the rewards in this paradigm change while the citizens get the shaft.

[CDusr]

Originally Posted by J746NEW

Th social engineers want all nations to become more economically and culturally interdependent on each other so that things are settled through the rule of law rather than through the rule of the jungle as they have in the past.

Those reaping the benefits of these globalists policies may be partying now but wont be further down the line

If one studies CAFRS and financial markets one can see a great deal about how the system is working. There are many govt investment funds, not just pension funds. The accounting rules that are laid out state how these funds are used. The creative use of liabilities to gain wealth, the obfuscation of total wealth and focus on budget aide this system. Keep in mind who the largest shareholder's of those TNCs are. Institutional investing is 70% of the stock market. CALpers, breaks down their categories, like many into public equity, private equity and fixed income.

In a nutshell looking at a system design is very important. Govt is the machinery that appears to be doing the heavy lifting. Exporting productivity and importing consumerism creates co-dependency on the system as a whole. Those at the top of such a centrally controlled hierarchy benefit the most from the system. There is more extracting going on than exchange. However, once a system is setup those system design parameters influence or dictate predictable outcomes.

The corporate centrally controlled hierarchical model is essentially the basis of the commerce model the planet is using.