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Old 01-17-2014, 12:45 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
16,842 posts, read 16,642,740 times
Reputation: 16376

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
Well, what happened the last time the minimum wage was raised (in 2009)? And the time before that? Did it result in an inflationary spiral, as you seem to be suggesting?

You didn't take the next step.

Longer term employees would have to receive a raise to keep the parity between themselves and new hires. That will lead to one of two things:

Higher prices (your inflationary spiral) or,
greater efficiencies which lead to prices staying more or less the same. With greater efficiencies usually comes reduced hiring or, in some cases, even staff reductions.

Once again, take the next step.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:46 PM
 
Location: ɐpɐʌǝu 'sɐƃǝʌ sɐl
14,435 posts, read 10,308,264 times
Reputation: 7268
Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
Which doesn't explain why the big-box conglomerates are fighting it so fiercely.
Would you not fight a 40% increase in the largest expense in your budget?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
And what about the customers of those locally-owned small businesses? Some of them would be getting raises, making them better able to keep their money local instead of sending it to Bentonville.

It works both ways.
You're nuts if you think that there would be enough "new" money being spent in these small shops to compensate for the increases in their labor costs. Nuts.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:46 PM
 
5,190 posts, read 2,557,069 times
Reputation: 1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
Well, what happened the last time the minimum wage was raised (in 2009)? And the time before that? Did it result in an inflationary spiral, as you seem to be suggesting?
Last time and the the time before and the the time before and the time before... we raised the minimum wage, it made the fundamental improvement for the people making the minimum wage and they have been able to make livable wage happily ever after... oh wait.




Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:46 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,569 posts, read 3,857,541 times
Reputation: 4969
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
You didn't take the next step.

Longer term employees would have to receive a raise to keep the parity between themselves and new hires. That will lead to one of two things:

Higher prices (your inflationary spiral) or,
greater efficiencies which lead to prices staying more or less the same. With greater efficiencies usually comes reduced hiring or, in some cases, even staff reductions.

Once again, take the next step.
Once again, please point to evidence that either of those things happened the last several times the minimum wage was increased.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:47 PM
 
1,637 posts, read 410,561 times
Reputation: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Over time their pay would go up too and $10 would just become the new unlivable wage.
yep...just move along the sliding scale
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:48 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,569 posts, read 3,857,541 times
Reputation: 4969
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
You're nuts if you think that there would be enough "new" money being spent in these small shops to compensate for the increases in their labor costs. Nuts.
OK, so why are big-box retailers driving mom-and-pop stores out of business? Because they can offer lower prices, and people can't afford to shop anywhere else.

Why can't people afford to shop anywhere else? Because they don't earn enough money.

Do you really think that reducing the minimum wage (which, to use the same logic as those who are insisting that raising it would have an inflationary effect on local prevailing wages, would depress local wages) would somehow drive more customers to those mom-and-pop stores?
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:49 PM
 
5,190 posts, read 2,557,069 times
Reputation: 1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
I have yet to see an economy collapse due to a minimum wage increase.
You aren't going to see the economy collapse but you can see jobs are moving overseas en mass and they are being replaced by robots.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:51 PM
 
Location: West Palm Beach - Flamingo Park
14,724 posts, read 16,428,103 times
Reputation: 6310
Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
Once again, please point to evidence that either of those things happened the last several times the minimum wage was increased.

It's actually a rather valid concern. I'm not so sure it has an easy answer.

The previous increases in minimum wage were very incremental to the point of absurdity.


Sadly, wages have not increased with inflation for most people. So, wage compression is an issue that should be considered. I would expect -- demand -- an increase if I were, say, a night shift supervisor at a fast food restaurant making $10.00/hour, and suddenly all employees with less responsibility and less skill made the same money as me.


Frankly, I think it's unjust to have unskilled burger flippers making the same money as semi-skilled workers.

There must also be incentive to get people to want to move OUT of minimum wage jobs and INTO the more skilled jobs that previously were paying $3/hour more.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:52 PM
 
Location: ɐpɐʌǝu 'sɐƃǝʌ sɐl
14,435 posts, read 10,308,264 times
Reputation: 7268
Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
Once again, please point to evidence that either of those things happened the last several times the minimum wage was increased.
Rather than question what might happen, let's look at what has happened.

What was the purpose of previous increases in the minimum wage? What was the desired effect? Did the increases result in that desired effect?
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:55 PM
 
Location: it depends
5,457 posts, read 2,467,605 times
Reputation: 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
Once again, please point to evidence that either of those things happened the last several times the minimum wage was increased.
As per usual with the minimum wage threads, everybody keeps getting lost in the weeds.

If gasoline goes from $3.50 to $5.00 per gallon overnight, less gasoline would be sold next week. If the price of butter doubled, less would be sold. If the price of tin went up 30%, less tin would be used. The point is, when you raise the price of any good or service (including unskilled labor), less of it will be used in the marketplace. Period. Law of nature. You can argue it with anecdote, you can present your philosophy, you can even quote studies on the issue. An increase in the minimum wage would hurt the very people it is supposed to help.

The only way to sustainably increase real compensation is to increase the value of one's labor. The stuff cannot be consistently sold for more than it is worth, no matter how much some people wish it could be.
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