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Old 02-25-2014, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,158,856 times
Reputation: 7875

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
Never let a crisis go to waste...
Oh I am sure you would prefer only those that have the money to afford insurance should have health insurance.

 
Old 02-25-2014, 11:01 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,778,510 times
Reputation: 4174
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Oh I am sure you would prefer only those that have the money to afford insurance should have health insurance.
Now we are in the much better position, where even people who do have money can't afford health insurance.

 
Old 02-25-2014, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,158,856 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Now we are in the much better position, where even people who do have money can't afford health insurance.

That's a false statement.
 
Old 02-25-2014, 11:29 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,859,083 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Now we are in the much better position, where even people who do have money can't afford health insurance.

Healthcare reform isn't about access to healthcare or about health insurance. It's about the fact that healthcare costs in the United States are too high. They are higher than anywhere else in the world, and they cannot be sustained. It's not because we receive better healthcare, either. People around the world get equal or even superior healthcare in many instances. We pay more because of how we've designed the system. We pay more because our costs help subsidize the healthcare costs around the world.

We KNOW that healthcare reform has to happen. Democrats know it. Republicans know it. Independents know it. Any person with a 3-digit IQ knows it.

But some idiotic partisan political hacks prefer to use healthcare reform as a political hot potato so they can score points against their political counterparts.

Romneycare and Obamacare are/were stepping-stone reforms that hope to eventually control COSTS, not people, COSTS, and the healthcare industry is going to fight those measures tooth and nail, every step of the way. Because they like the for-profit model. The problem is that healthcare is more a service, than a product, and when you devote resources to service industries, your economy has to balance that, either by growth or by devoting more resources to production. Our economy is already seriously out of balance because of the amount of resources dedicated to healthcare, and with baby boomers poised to consume even more healthcare, that amount of resources dedicated to healthcare will increase exponentially. The only way to address that problem is to lower healthcare costs, thereby reducing the amount of resources spent on healthcare.

Republicans know this. As do Democrats, and economists, and people in finance, and people in insurance and people in healthcare.

But when a political hack wants to take a swing at his political opponents, he doesn't acknowledge the facts and truth, he appeals to people's emotions. He doesn't acknowledge that some unpleasant things have to happen, no matter who initiates those unpleasant things, in order to save our economy. He pretends that everything is okay, that everything would be okay if nobody took any action at all. That's what your complaint about healthcare reform does. If we did nothing, everything would be okay. And that's blatantly untrue.

The ACA is flawed legislation that doesn't do nearly enough to address the real problem. But we should be talking about the REAL problem, and looking for better solutions to that problem, instead of pretending that everything is okay, or would be okay if we could just repeal the ACA. The time between the passage of the ACA, and its implementation, made our situation worse, as the healthcare industry and insurance jacked up costs before implementation to protect their profits. And the loopholes in the ACA will continue to be problematic. And if the repeal the ACA, the healthcare industry and insurance companies will jack up prices again. Because down the road, the money won't be there. Either the nation WILL reform healthcare to lower costs, or the nation won't, and our economy will collapse under the weight of high healthcare costs. The healthcare industry is taking the money while they can. And they'll keep putting scary stories out there to scare people into opposing healthcare reform, because the longer they can put it off, the longer they have to grab the money.

Over time, the options we have to address the problems become fewer and fewer. We will have fewer and fewer choices of how to deal with this problem. Aren't you glad that politicians are playing this for power gains today, rather than looking out for everyone's interests in the future?
 
Old 02-25-2014, 11:35 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,778,510 times
Reputation: 4174
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Healthcare reform isn't about access to healthcare or about health insurance.
I know. Obamacare is, and always has been, about transferring wealth from one group of people to another. Health care (or health insurance) was only the current excuse for this particular wealth grab.
 
Old 02-25-2014, 11:37 AM
 
924 posts, read 666,881 times
Reputation: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
I know. Obamacare is, and always has been, about transferring wealth from one group of people to another. Health care (or health insurance) was only the current excuse for this particular wealth grab.
What an insane conspiracy theory.
 
Old 02-25-2014, 12:00 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,859,083 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
I know. Obamacare is, and always has been, about transferring wealth from one group of people to another. Health care (or health insurance) was only the current excuse for this particular wealth grab.
Clearly, you don't know.

More than that, your conclusion is illogical.

If the ACA were all about allowing the healthcare industry and healthcare insurance the opportunity to grab wealth, why have the healthcare industry and healthcare insurance companies worked so hard to lobby against the ACA, to paint the ACA as the villain, to point out how bad it is? They've been taking the money, so clearly something else is going on here, isn't it? Instead of embracing partisan political talking points, maybe you should step outside the fishbowl, and actually look at the American economy and how much of our economic resources healthcare is consuming. Then consider what will happen as baby-boomers massively retire in the next two decades. And then tell us all what you think the solution to this problem is.

The ACA is not a solution. It's a stepping stone. It's LEVERAGE. And that's why the healthcare industry and insurance companies have been campaigning so hard against it.
 
Old 02-25-2014, 12:17 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,778,510 times
Reputation: 4174
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
I know. Obamacare is, and always has been, about transferring wealth from one group of people to another. Health care (or health insurance) was only the current excuse for this particular wealth grab.
Clearly, you don't know.

More than that, your conclusion is illogical.

If the ACA were all about allowing the healthcare industry and healthcare insurance the opportunity to grab wealth,
Notice how deftly the liberal tries to change what I said, into something I never said?

As I've pointed out elsewhere, when these people can't refute what someone says, or even argue against it, they try to change the question instead.

(yawn)

Back to the subject:
Even the New York Times has pointed out that Obamacare is mostly there for the purpose of transferring wealth from one group of people to another. That's been a major goal of socialists, since before it was even called "socialism".

Obamacare didn't have to provide health care or health insurance. We already had those things. Obamacare's intent was quite different from that. It just wasn't different from what these people have always intended to put in place: Taking money from some, and giving it to others.

There's a name for that act. And "compassion" ain't it.
 
Old 02-25-2014, 12:20 PM
 
924 posts, read 666,881 times
Reputation: 312
Single payer option > __________
 
Old 02-25-2014, 12:51 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,859,083 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Notice how deftly the liberal tries to change what I said, into something I never said?

As I've pointed out elsewhere, when these people can't refute what someone says, or even argue against it, they try to change the question instead.

(yawn)

Back to the subject:
Even the New York Times has pointed out that Obamacare is mostly there for the purpose of transferring wealth from one group of people to another. That's been a major goal of socialists, since before it was even called "socialism".

Obamacare didn't have to provide health care or health insurance. We already had those things. Obamacare's intent was quite different from that. It just wasn't different from what these people have always intended to put in place: Taking money from some, and giving it to others.

There's a name for that act. And "compassion" ain't it.
Notice how ineptly the conservative tries to deflect.

Whose wealth is growing in the healthcare/insurance industry? Who's making money?
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