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Who make the cheese on student loans?
It is a cash cow.
You beat me to it...
Higher education is BIG MONEY. From the tuition and state money the schools collect to the interest on the student loans backed by the government. You can compare this to the housing bubble. More and more risky loans were written to fuel the beast until the bubble burst.
While I do see value in higher education the cost needs to come down if you want most people getting an education. It is not responsible for many people to spend $100K on student loans to get an education. That's only warranted when you have the extra cash to spend or you're going into a career with a good pay back ratio. Yes, your earning potential is higher with an education BUT what is the pay back period? When I graduated, I calculated that my engineering degree had a 25 year pay back period over a peer who took a job in a factory instead of going to school. The cost of education is disproportionately higher today. When you do the math, higher education often isn't worth the price, however, it does benefit society to have an educated society. We need to make education cheaper not give people access to running up debt they may or may not be able to pay off.
If you want everyone educated you don't give them credit cards to go to school on so they come out of school with massive debt. You find a way to lower the cost of higher education so people aren't gambling with their futures when they go to school. The fact the government extends credit instead of fixing the real problem which is the high cost of higher education is telling. It's a cash cow. It's a cash cow for the schools, the banks and the government.
Here's what I could never understand... Trades = bad careers according to many parents. So why do they view professions like nursing as any better? They are exposed to sick people 8-12 hours a day. Their job is often physically demanding, and with that comes the risk of back or muscle injuries. Their injury rates rival many trades in fact. The job is horridly stressful. Cranky families, cranky doctors, cranky, often villainous DONs. Nurses have unusually high rates of substance abuse, both alcohol and prescription meds. The attrition rate is 50% after 5 years, most likely due to the intense stress... Oh yes, they are also frequent victims of abuse by patients. But hey, the job requires a degree, so it must be a great career!
I have been a nurse (RN) for over 40 years.
To answer the first question-nursing does pay pretty well, if you work full time at a hospital in a major metropolitan area.
The bold describes a lot of hospital nursing some of the time, though that's only part of the job. Unless you're working in pediatrics or on some special contagious diseases unit, you don't really get exposed to communicable diseases. I'd like to see some data on the injury rates.
I'd really like to see some data on this "unsually high rates of substance abuse, both alcohol and prescription meds". According to the newsletters I get from the licensing boards, males are way more likely than females to lose their license for same, even though they are outnumbered about 10 to 1 in nursing.
Would also like to see some data about 50% attrition rate after 5 years. That's not what I've read. In fact, the stats I've read consistently show that most nurses are working in. . . nursing. Of course, that does depend on how the stats are collected. Do they include only active RNs, active and inactive RNs, nurses who've let their licenses lapsed, what? The average age of an RN is 45 1/2 years, and 45% are over 50, which does not compute with the average nurse leaving within 5 years.
I have read articles stating that nurses generally leave hospital employment by age 40. I helped bring down that number; I left at 26. Many nurses work in public health, doctor's offices, clinics, and all sorts of other milieu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
That statement reveals both prejudice and ignorance. If you think of the trades as being a "glorified robot" not requiring critical thinking skills, clearly you've never given thought to the task of planning the electrical or plumbing system for a commercial building...or even a residence. You must also have never owned and run a small business with employees. Maybe you've never even designed a custom wooden fence or deck and then calculated the material order.
That seems to be what you think of nursing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
More revealed ignorance, I'm afraid.
The majority of kids being graduated from high school today do not have the basic math and critical thinking skills to do either, including a large percentage who are heading for college. Don't you think that's a shame?
I'd think that was a "shame" if it were true. Perhaps you can support that statement?
I'd think that was a "shame" if it were true. Perhaps you can support that statement?
Nearly 60% of college freshmen are not college ready, 75% if you look at just community college.
They must take remedial classes in either English or Math.
Nearly 60% of college freshmen are not college ready, 75% if you look at just community college.
They must take remedial classes in either English or Math.
I can vouch for the truthiness of these figures. As a retired university instructor, over two decades, I witnessed the decline in the levels of high school graduates' average reading comprehension, writing abilities and math scores.
Universities are realizing this, and due to grade inflation in high schools ("show up, get an A") more are requiring pre-admission tests and are admitting students only on a conditional basis. Full admission is granted only after students have completed remedial classes to teach them the things they should have learned in high school. Same with community colleges. Universities began receiving a lot of blowback from industry and business because some colleges were also guilty of just passing students along, and their BS and BA degrees were worthless. Most of them have heard the message and are tightening up admissions requirements. Most... not all.
We do such a disservice bestowing high school diplomas on students who lack critical thinking skills and basic reading, writing and math abilities. They go proudly out into the world with their high school diplomas, thinking they're the berries, when in reality, they lack necessary education, skills and knowledge to do the basic things employers require.
So yes, I do think it's good that we push people to go to college. Or a trade school. Or to at least LEARN SOMETHING!! Why in heaven's name would we, as a society, prefer to be surrounded by uneducated, unskilled people? Isn't that how we improve our country and set it up to compete in a global economy?
I can vouch for the truthiness of these figures. As a retired university instructor, over two decades, I witnessed the decline in the levels of high school graduates' average reading comprehension, writing abilities and math scores.
Universities are realizing this, and due to grade inflation in high schools ("show up, get an A") more are requiring pre-admission tests and are admitting students only on a conditional basis. Full admission is granted only after students have completed remedial classes to teach them the things they should have learned in high school. Same with community colleges. Universities began receiving a lot of blowback from industry and business because some colleges were also guilty of just passing students along, and their BS and BA degrees were worthless. Most of them have heard the message and are tightening up admissions requirements. Most... not all.
We do such a disservice bestowing high school diplomas on students who lack critical thinking skills and basic reading, writing and math abilities. They go proudly out into the world with their high school diplomas, thinking they're the berries, when in reality, they lack necessary education, skills and knowledge to do the basic things employers require.
So yes, I do think it's good that we push people to go to college. Or a trade school. Or to at least LEARN SOMETHING!! Why in heaven's name would we, as a society, prefer to be surrounded by uneducated, unskilled people? Isn't that how we improve our country and set it up to compete in a global economy?
EVEN after they graduate the need "training".
I read awhile back about the large number of corporations that hire college grads and have to start "indoctrination" classes in etiquette. These "grads" don't even kow how to sit at a dinner table.
The course includes manners, respect and how to dress among other things needed to deal in the corporate world.
I read awhile back about the large number of corporations that hire college grads and have to start "indoctrination" classes in etiquette. These "grads" don't even kow how to sit at a dinner table.
The course includes manners, respect and how to dress among other things needed to deal in the corporate world.
They also have to be told to stay off Facebook, twitter and other social media during working hours.
I was mentoring some interns at my job and felt like it was K-12 with all the social networking they were doing during working hours. The work was not getting done and they didn't care.
"This is the real world people..we have a deadline here" went through deaf ears.
That was the last time I volunteered to mentor interns.
I had been doing it for over a decade and enjoyed doing it but over the years these interns attitudes toward work changed.
Told my manager in 2009 that I was not volunteering anymore and to find someone else to babysit them.
I read awhile back about the large number of corporations that hire college grads and have to start "indoctrination" classes in etiquette. These "grads" don't even kow how to sit at a dinner table.
The course includes manners, respect and how to dress among other things needed to deal in the corporate world.
The military is even running into the same problem. Kids are graduated accustomed to practicing levels of harassment of all types (sexual, political, religious, et cetera) that isn't acceptable even in the military.
Nearly 60% of college freshmen are not college ready, 75% if you look at just community college.
They must take remedial classes in either English or Math.
No, I was not the one who made the "glorified robot" statement. I said nothing about nursing.
If trades really do require a lot of critical thinking skills, then why not simply create BA/BS degrees in them and make them complete a basic core curriculum to help strengthen those skills?
By the way, I never said I had anything at all against trades. Skilled workers in the trades are sorely needed and I firmly believe not everyone should attend college. But many, many should.
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