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Old 01-29-2014, 06:38 AM
 
16,775 posts, read 9,115,884 times
Reputation: 6798

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Is Obamacare a poorly thought out and poorly implemented policy? Yes.

However, look into the future. 50 years from now, do you not think that we will have a single payer system similar to Canada? I think the odds of this NOT happening are very slim. Democrats don't even want Obamacare as an endgame and it may be dysfunctional enough to even speed the process of moving to a single payer system up.

If it is virtually inevitable that we will wind up with a single payer system at some point, wouldn't it be wise to get something of value out of it now - rather than get nothing out of it later?

Today fiscal Conservatives could get something major like a balanced budget amendment and/or welfare reform in exchange for bringing on the inevitable of a single payer system. Part of democracy is realizing that you won't always get everything exactly that you want. Why not put together a single amendment that advances conservative fiscal positions as well as liberal healthcare initiatives? That way there can be no shenanigans of promises that go bankrupt.

If you act today, you can also guide that single payer system. If you wait until the Democrats have the numbers to do it on their own in the future - it very well may get passed the same way Obamacare passed, which is to say pathetically...no transparency despite Obama promising otherwise, having to vote for it to know what is in it, thousands of papers with the add ons, etc...
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,215 posts, read 7,910,914 times
Reputation: 7740
"Because so-shul-ism...ARGHLE BLARGHLE...me hate 0bama!!!"
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,482 posts, read 8,838,802 times
Reputation: 2527
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
Is Obamacare a poorly thought out and poorly implemented policy? Yes.

However, look into the future. 50 years from now, do you not think that we will have a single payer system similar to Canada? I think the odds of this NOT happening are very slim. Democrats don't even want Obamacare as an endgame and it may be dysfunctional enough to even speed the process of moving to a single payer system up.

If it is virtually inevitable that we will wind up with a single payer system at some point, wouldn't it be wise to get something of value out of it now - rather than get nothing out of it later?

Today fiscal Conservatives could get something major like a balanced budget amendment and/or welfare reform in exchange for bringing on the inevitable of a single payer system. Part of democracy is realizing that you won't always get everything exactly that you want. Why not put together a single amendment that advances conservative fiscal positions as well as liberal healthcare initiatives? That way there can be no shenanigans of promises that go bankrupt.

If you act today, you can also guide that single payer system. If you wait until the Democrats have the numbers to do it on their own in the future - it very well may get passed the same way Obamacare passed, which is to say pathetically...no transparency despite Obama promising otherwise, having to vote for it to know what is in it, thousands of papers with the add ons, etc...
Democrats did Obama care on their own and now want republicans' to fix it. If the republicans offered a fix they would be labeled as racist out of touch women haters. So democrats you broke the system and control 2/3 of the government and now expect republicans to fix it...lol
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,825 posts, read 20,228,396 times
Reputation: 6487
The only "fix" to the ObamaCare abomination is to abolish it utterly. Democrats are continuously violating the US Constitution, and ObamaCare is just another example of the federal government exerting authority where it has no business to do so. ObamaCare is as anti-American as it gets, and anyone who could support a complete take over of health insurance by the federal government is truly an enemy of the US and should be shot on sight.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:14 AM
 
16,775 posts, read 9,115,884 times
Reputation: 6798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
The only "fix" to the ObamaCare abomination is to abolish it utterly. Democrats are continuously violating the US Constitution, and ObamaCare is just another example of the federal government exerting authority where it has no business to do so. ObamaCare is as anti-American as it gets, and anyone who could support a complete take over of health insurance by the federal government is truly an enemy of the US and should be shot on sight.
You don't think that is extreme? You talk of freedom and authority and yet think I should get murdered for wanting a healthcare system that out closest allies and closest cultural countries already have in exchange for a balanced budget amendment?

Does this kind of talk help politics?


Many countries have a national healthcare system...I have traveled there and they seem to be...free. One could argue it expands freedom of those on the bottom. I think it is inevitable that we will wind up with a national healthcare system similar to Canada or the UK at some point in the future - probably less than 50 years. Do you disagree? If you agree, should we not do it now to A) get rid of Obamacare, which is bad policy and B) get something in return for it like a balanced budget amendment.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,825 posts, read 20,228,396 times
Reputation: 6487
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
You don't think that is extreme? You talk of freedom and authority and yet think I should get murdered for wanting a healthcare system that out closest allies and closest cultural countries already have in exchange for a balanced budget amendment?

Does this kind of talk help politics?


Many countries have a national healthcare system...I have traveled there and they seem to be...free. One could argue it expands freedom of those on the bottom. I think it is inevitable that we will wind up with a national healthcare system similar to Canada or the UK at some point in the future - probably less than 50 years. Do you disagree? If you agree, should we not do it now to A) get rid of Obamacare, which is bad policy and B) get something in return for it like a balanced budget amendment.
What is extreme is violating our liberty and stealing our property for your socialist utopia. Since you are obviously uneducated, I will inform you that we are a suppose to be a nation of laws. The Supreme Law of the Land is the US Constitution, and no where in that document will you find any authority for the federal government to involve itself in our health care or health care insurance. You cite other countries, while completely ignoring the laws of this country. That is what makes all liberal freaks anti-American enemies of the US. There is no greater threat to the nation than a group of lawless ingrates who want to steal the labor of others, and that is why they should be shot on sight.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,493 posts, read 15,447,826 times
Reputation: 11410
From the OP...

Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
If it is virtually inevitable that we will wind up with a single payer system at some point, wouldn't it be wise to get something of value out of it now - rather than get nothing out of it later?
Because a single payer system is antithetical to freedom.

Think about it - in a single payer government system in the U.S., the people who will be managing the finances of our health care system continuously operate in huge deficits every year and have racked up record debt. They can't manage what they have on their plate now - and we want them to take on 16% of our economy? Total insanity.

Here's an example of a single payer health care system - my family. In my family, I pay the medical bills, insurance thru employers, etc. The money comes from me. My kid gets a cold. I, as the one managing the money, have the authority of whether or not I take my kid to the doctor. In a single payer government system, the government as the money manager, will have the authority to tell people when they can and cannot get health care. They will have the authority of whether of not an elderly person is worthy to receive medical care - or if they should just die out because it's too much to spend on someone who is about to die anyway, and they don't want to spend the money. That is un-American and anti-freedom.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,876 posts, read 6,618,319 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
From the OP...



Because a single payer system is antithetical to freedom.

Think about it - in a single payer government system, the people who will be managing the finances of our health care system continuously operate in huge deficits every year and have racked up record debt. They can't manage what they have on their plate now - and we want them to take on 16% of our economy? Total insanity.

Here's an example of a single payer health care system - my family. In my family, I pay the medical bills, insurance thru employers, etc. The money comes from me. My kid gets a cold. I, as the one managing the money, have the authority of whether or not I take my kid to the doctor. In a single payer government system, the government as the money manager, will have the authority to tell people when they can and cannot get health care. They will have the authority of whether of not an elderly person is worthy to receive medical care - or if they should just die out because they don't want to spend the money. That is un-American and anti-freedom.
I'd be interested to hear from Canadians, Taiwanese or any other national who enjoys a single payer health insurance system complain about their "freedoms being taken away".

and BTW, we already have institutions here who tell us what we can't or cannot get in terms of health care. They're called insurance companies.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:38 AM
 
4,176 posts, read 4,026,659 times
Reputation: 1667
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
From the OP...



Because a single payer system is antithetical to freedom.

Think about it - in a single payer government system in the U.S., the people who will be managing the finances of our health care system continuously operate in huge deficits every year and have racked up record debt. They can't manage what they have on their plate now - and we want them to take on 16% of our economy? Total insanity.

Here's an example of a single payer health care system - my family. In my family, I pay the medical bills, insurance thru employers, etc. The money comes from me. My kid gets a cold. I, as the one managing the money, have the authority of whether or not I take my kid to the doctor. In a single payer government system, the government as the money manager, will have the authority to tell people when they can and cannot get health care. They will have the authority of whether of not an elderly person is worthy to receive medical care - or if they should just die out because they don't want to spend the money. That is un-American and anti-freedom.
Ask my grandma, who has been happily on Medicare since 1988, how badly she is missing her "freedom."
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,876 posts, read 6,618,319 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
Democrats did Obama care on their own and now want republicans' to fix it. If the republicans offered a fix they would be labeled as racist out of touch women haters. So democrats you broke the system and control 2/3 of the government and now expect republicans to fix it...lol
Uh, no. They were offered time and time again their input and they absolutely refused. And once it was passed, they have spent time and efforts to repeal it (silly, considering that it won't get thru the Senate and if it did, the Pres would veto it).

Well, the old rule is that if you complain about something, suggest a better solution. That hasn't really happened, and what they've just proposed as a solution (most recently) pretty much guarantees that people will have to pay more for their health insurance, with less coverage. Brilliant.
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