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I don't know the asian demographics of chicago or their entrance requirements for specialized school (are they test only?) But here in NYC asians have been pushing out all other races including whites from the elite (test-only) schools because they test so well. But of course asians don't count as "diverse" to libs. In fact I'd be curious to know the stats on this gifted program that was axed. Was it really mostly white? I'd be surprised if so, I'd expect a good chunk of asians.
For the record I think kindy is too early to test for a gifted program. Best time to test would probably be 4th or 5th grade, this allows boys some time to catch up (since girls develop faster as young children). So if the process is discriminatory, it's discriminating against little boys.
Specialized schools for the selective high schools in Chicago are based on both standardized test (math and reading) and grades (math and ELA, then social studies and science) using a point system. Black selective enrollment population in Chicago is over 30%, which closely mirrors the black population of Chicago (38%). Asians are around 12%. There are more black children in CPS than Asian so it makes sense that more black children would be represented on all levels.
Also, one has to take into consideration that for selective high schools in particular, the education received by students prior to admission does matter. In Chicago, a large portion of the selective enrollment, magnet, and classical elementary schools are black children, so those kids are receiving an accelerated education (they are taught 2 grade levels ahead in most schools). Even if they are not gifted, they are better prepared for the testing and most have better grades than other kids who apply to the selective high schools who come from either a poor performing private school or a regular public school. Those kids, especially the black kids in Chicago are less likely to make it into the selective schools. And FWIW, there are many average kids who can do well in an accelerated program. If individuals are willing to put in the work academically, then they will be able to make it. As someone who actually did take very advanced classes in high school (some college classes on campus as well) I can attest to the fact that most of the regular classes I took outside of AP were not all that much different. I went to a po-dunk inner city school too. Some of the college classes I took, especially in regards to history seminars, were easier than my AP history class in high school.
instead of having mini schools and SOAR, they are just going to provide that curriculum to all students, no one is getting dumbed down. no on is choosing diversity over intelligence. the gifted education program at this school is not based on whether the child actually exhibits higher IQ, it seems to simply be a program parents can sign their kids up for.
this thread and the 4 others like it are all failures.
every child is gifted in some way. you just need to find the subject in which they excel. if schools get rid of these antiquated "gifted" programs, they may be able to one day teach all children in a manor that allows their gifts to flourish. my son is 7 and can easily do 4th or 5th grade math. his understanding of science surpasses even some adults that I know. but he is not a strong reader. because reading doesn't come as easy to him as math and science, he hates it. and because public schools are so rigid in the way they teach, we have to spend thousands on sylvan. instead of labeling children "gifted" or "average" or "below average", wouldn't it be great if they were grouped by their strong points and placed into a class environment with other students based on those abilities?
Great post and I agree!!
All kids have"gifts" and "talent" just as all people do.
But many, like those who are complaining on the thread about diversity do not want to give up all the labels of kids in regards to giftedness. I feel the TAG program I was in as a kid could have and should have been expanded to include all the kids in our district. I got a lot of extra curricular programs to experience and help me think more critically about the world, people, and my community. All kids would benefit from such involvement, not just those who test well or read early or who can do algebra when they are 8.
every child is gifted in some way. you just need to find the subject in which they excel. if schools get rid of these antiquated "gifted" programs, they may be able to one day teach all children in a manor that allows their gifts to flourish. my son is 7 and can easily do 4th or 5th grade math. his understanding of science surpasses even some adults that I know. but he is not a strong reader. because reading doesn't come as easy to him as math and science, he hates it. and because public schools are so rigid in the way they teach, we have to spend thousands on sylvan. instead of labeling children "gifted" or "average" or "below average", wouldn't it be great if they were grouped by their strong points and placed into a class environment with other students based on those abilities?
great. we'll create a special environment for those youngsters who excel in nose-picking and BB-stacking
In my uneducated opinion. I would like to have seen an "evaluation" preformed as to the likely link between behavioral problems and trauma of not being with one's own peer group. Going through one's early life hating school is not a good indication of success.
My son did not hate school as much as he hated having to go to 1st grade when it was play time in kindergarten. If I had known this was the case (he likes to tell me about the horrors still) then I would have talked to the teacher and had him leave at a different time.
Truthfully, if I had had my druthers, I would have had him skip kindergarten altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
I am for neither. I think every child has the capability for intelligence and success. Gifted child sounds snobby to me. I don't think classrooms should be forced to represent diversity either. It's as evil as segregation, IMO. Kids should attend the schools within their districts regardless of race or ethnicity and not slotted into classrooms based on race or aptitude.
The only exception should be where a student doesn't speak English. These English learners slow our own students down.
And the non-readers in kindergarten slowed my son down. He was beginning to read chapter books by the end of kindergarten.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
So your son never received a GED? If he started school in 88 he would be in his early 30s by now. How are his job prospects in regards to not having any sort of education attainment. Hopefully he is entrepreneurial so that he can support himself.
I gave him a real practice GED test (my mom lived with us and she was a GED teacher) the day after I removed him from school. He was 12 years old and passed the practice test with high enough marks that if he had been 16 he would have taken it then and gotten his GED. Life and illness got in the way and we just never had the money to afford the tests. Now, he just doesn't care one way or the other.
He just turned 31, but has the emotional and behavioral mentality of a 13 year old. He has Autism - Asperger's to be exact. This is why he was so smart and had such behavioral problems. However, we did not have this diagnosis until he was 27 years old. He can't even hold a volunteer job, so working is out. He collects SSI and lives with me - and probably always will. (And I don't mind one bit!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
Thanks for the link. Didn't have time to google. If you look at the OP page, it does look fake and I did state that it may just be my PC, but thanks for the snark lol.
Also, as was mentioned, and as you should know since you claim to be an educator, gifted programs do not start in most districts until 2nd or 3rd grade as most kid's academic ability evens out by then and even if they are put into an accelerated program in kindergarten, most kids don't even meet the academic requirements needed to designate them as "gifted" by 5th grade who were in the accelerated program from k-5.
And FWIW, I do think there are truly gifted kids at 5 years old. But even gifted 5 year olds don't need to be sitting in a boring class getting facts crammed down their throats and causing them to dislike school. Kindergarten should be both fun and stimulating for the kids and give them a positive outlook on school. For younger kids in particular, they learn more through playing than through instruction from an adult so letting a gifted kid stay in regular kindergarten will do more good than harm in most cases.
Will use my gift of google and give you all the following, older article but information still holds true
As an educator, you should know that way too many parents like to tout their little one as being "gifted" for normal development or because they memorized stuff that mom/dad/grandma made them memorize. Most are just regular kids. Those parents do give the kid a boost and encourage a love of learning but the kid is not actually gifted.
As stated, people tell me my own kid is gifted. I don't know for sure, but I don't think she is. She just likes to learn and so we explore her interests in depth. I did the same for my older kid who is now in middle school and to know him now, you would know that he is not gifted even though he does still read above average and does above average math. He is just a regular kid who has parents who put a lot of time and effort into him. Contrast that with me, as I was a TAG kid, my mom was a single mom on welfare and she didn't do hardly anything with me at all but I could read my favorite book "Soup and Me" when I was 3 years old and do multiplication better than the 8 year olds on our street at the time. True giftedness cannot be taught to kids. They just are that way.
FWIW...regarding your FWIW , I actually agree!
My son hated going to 1st grade because he wanted to play in the sandbox. However, if he had never gone to kindergarten in the first place he would never have known about playing in said sandbox - you can't miss what you don't know about - and he would have done just fine in a class with kids a year older.
He also told me he hated it because he had friends in his own class, but never made friends with the 1st graders because they considered him a "kindergarten baby". The same thing happened when we tried it again in 1st grade. That is why we stopped it there.
School got a little better for him, but he never really enjoyed it after the first two years. At least that school was willing to work with us. We moved when he was in the 5th grade and he hated the new school from day one. This school ignored my advice to keep him literally busy and he got in trouble for talking and spent most of every day of 6th grade in the principal's office. Since they were not teaching him anything, I figured I could do a much better job and did so. Made us all happy.
What intelligence? Can they even tie their own shoes?
If you don't think a 5/6 year-old can display intelligence, you apparently haven't met any highly intelligent children. I'm around kids all day at work (and in my personal life), and the differences are obvious even before that age.
P.S. I was reading BEFORE kindergarten, so I'm pretty sure I could also master tying my shoes by that age.
Yeah..let's go with the "Every child is gifted" theory and get rid of the program.
Not sure if this is in response to my post (since it's the last one & you didn't quote), but just for the record, that is most definitely not what I was saying! I think these programs are great if run well, and should be maintained at their current standards. It's nice to encourage diversity, and obviously if a minority student qualifies they should be admitted - but I would not support closing the programs simply for a lack of meeting ethnic quotas.
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, I actually agree! 
