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In Italy a case has to pass through the three grades of courts, and this is automatic, the Court of Appeal has the power to send the case back, whilst the Final Court the Court of Cessation (Third Grade), which is the Court of Last Resort makes the final verdict.
This is the Italian system and if you judge the system to constitute 'Double Jeopardy' then you have real problems in terms of future extradition between the two countries.
That may be but I am just saying that in the US double jeopardy is a big constitutional issue and I am certain an extradition treaty wouldn't be able to overcome it. The question though is does it apply.
There are several big issues I think you have to consider. From what I gather Italian appeals courts are nothing like US appeals courts. So a big question would be how do you analogize them to something like a US court and how do you analogize their actions to something like US appeals courts actions or US trial court actions?
That is really unclear and why I am so uncertain. It is going to be anyone's guess as to how a US court will look at this and try to make comparisons.
That may be but I am just saying that in the US double jeopardy is a big constitutional issue and I am certain an extradition treaty wouldn't be able to overcome it. The question though is does it apply.
There are several big issues I think you have to consider. From what I gather Italian appeals courts are nothing like US appeals courts. So a big question would be how do you analogize them to something like a US court and how do you analogize their actions to something like US appeals courts actions or US trial court actions?
That is really unclear and why I am so uncertain. It is going to be anyone's guess as to how a US court will look at this and try to make comparisons.
What I am saying is if the US uses 'Double Jeopardy' in relation to how normal criminal cases are carried out in the Italian courts it sets a judicial precedent and means that extradition will become very difficult or even impossible between the two countries.
Furthermore if the way trials are carried out in Italy does constitute 'Double Jeopardy' then surely it was unconstitutional to sign an extradition agreement in relation to such a criminal system in the first place.
As for 'Double Jeopardy' it was taken from English Law, which has now been repealed but which we had for over 800 years, from the French Norman Conquest, when we based it upon the French peremptory plea of autrefois acquit or autrefois convict (autrefois means "in the past" in French).
Double Jeopardy was scrapped in the UK in 2005 after a successful campaign led by murder victim Julie Hogg's mother Ann Ming.
William Dunlop had been acquitted of the 1989 murder of his former girlfriend Julie Hogg, but later confessed his guilt to a prison officer while serving time for assault, thinking that he could not be retried for the same crime. Cleveland Police reopened the case after the law changed and Dunlop pleaded guilty to murder.
The new law allows new evidence to be presented and has stopped those who have been tried unsuccessfully from later thinking they are immune to prosecution and have walked away from murder, or indeed boasting or bragging or writing books or articles with impunity.
What I am saying is if the US uses 'Double Jeopardy' in relation to how normal criminal cases are carried out in the Italian courts it sets a judicial precedent and means that extradition will become very difficult or even impossible between the two countries.
Furthermore if the way trials are carried out in Italy does constitute 'Double Jeopardy' then surely it was unconstitutional to sign an extradition agreement in relation to such a criminal system in the first place.
As for 'Double Jeopardy' it was taken from English Law, which has now been repealed but which we had for over 800 years, from the French Norman Conquest, when we based it upon the French peremptory plea of autrefois acquit or autrefois convict (autrefois means "in the past" in French).
That may be true for England but the US has had an independent judicial system for over 200 years and it has gone in a different direction and double jeopardy is enshrined in the fifth amendment. It is pretty serious and has a whole lot of US Constitutional case law attached to it.
Basically, I am not saying how it comes out, I am just saying the systems are so different that it is possible for this to be a large issue. Basically the Italian court needs to rule first and then, if necessary the US Courts get there go and we won't find out, until and if, all is said and done.
I just think there are a lot of ways a US court could potentially see this, but if it is found our Constitution makes extradition difficult in some cases that will be a problem, but probably one for diplomats and negotiators and not Knox.
Double Jeopardy was scrapped in the UK in 2005 after a successful campaign led by murder victim Julie Hogg's mother Ann Ming.
William Dunlop had been acquitted of the 1989 murder of his former girlfriend Julie Hogg, but later confessed his guilt to a prison officer while serving time for assault, thinking that he could not be retried for the same crime. Cleveland Police reopened the case after the law changed and Dunlop pleaded guilty to murder.
That is pretty intense, no double jeopardy or ex post facto protections, please tell me they don't use attainder over there.
The more ive read about this case, the more I think she had something to do with it. If she ends up going back there legally, I dont think id be bothered one bit. She is not as innocent as she seems. She changed her story too many times, and even falsely claimed a person who clearly didnt do it, had something to do with it. She is a bad evil woman imo.
That may be true for England but the US has had an independent judicial system for over 200 years and it has gone in a different direction and double jeopardy is enshrined in the fifth amendment. It is pretty serious and has a whole lot of US Constitutional case law attached to it.
Basically, I am not saying how it comes out, I am just saying the systems are so different that it is possible for this to be a large issue. Basically the Italian court needs to rule first and then, if necessary the US Courts get there go and we won't find out, until and if, all is said and done.
I just think there are a lot of ways a US court could potentially see this, but if it is found our Constitution makes extradition difficult in some cases that will be a problem, but probably one for diplomats and negotiators and not Knox.
Then again Egbert it is enshrined in Italian Law that a foreign power can't just take some one off the streets of Milan, take them to one of their airbases and then fly them to Egypt where they are tortured.
Whilst I should imagine if Italian Military Aircraft exercising in the US, hit a cable car at a Ski Resort because they were flying far too low, the US would want those responsible to be tried in a US Court.
Indeed if I was the Italians I might be thinking, why not take a leaf out of the French book and make future extradition of our citizens to the US very difficult indeed. Which might not be a good thing given that the US Mafia still has close links to Italy, and Italy has helped the US and other nations in terms of terrorist extradition in the past.
That is pretty intense, no double jeopardy or ex post facto protections, please tell me they don't use attainder over there.
I hardly think attainder is relevant these days, and we adhere to the European Convention on Human Rights, which cover 47 nations including Italy and over 820 million people.
Whilst in terms of your constitution and ex post facto protections such as 'Due Process', tell that to those still t Guantanamo Bay in Cuba or try talking about the Constitution to all those Americans spied on by the NSA on a daily basis.
The more ive read about this case, the more I think she had something to do with it. If she ends up going back there legally, I dont think id be bothered one bit. She is not as innocent as she seems. She changed her story too many times, and even falsely claimed a person who clearly didnt do it, had something to do with it. She is a bad evil woman imo.
I agree, I feel the same the more I examine the case in detail.
Why are the libbies so bound and determined to defend this girl, and insist that she not be held accountable for her crimes? Is it just because she's a clueless college-age bimbo that liked to screw everything in sight? They say she that they don't want her held accountable according to the laws of the country she committed the act, because she's 'Murican.
Yet it was many of the very same posters that said a man who declared that he had an antique single-shot shotgun to Mexican immigration should be subject to years in prison because he "broke their laws and should have known better". MEXICO CITY: Latest hell for ex-U.S. Marine: Chained to bed in Mexican jail | World | McClatchy DC Of course, he was male and a Marine, so he deserves to be punished just for that.
I have never known calipoppy or lexus nexus to be "bound and determined" to defend her. It's quite the opposite, in fact. They are braying for her death. They absolutely HATE this girl. I am not sure that you can find two people more insanely liberal than those two.
For the record, I'm Conservative, and I don't believe she is guilty.
I have never known calipoppy or lexus nexus to be "bound and determined" to defend her. It's quite the opposite, in fact. They are braying for her death. They absolutely HATE this girl. I am not sure that you can find two people more insanely liberal than those two.
For the record, I'm Conservative, and I don't believe she is guilty.
I am neither liberal or conservative, I just examine the evidence from a legal perspective and in terms of Knox, there is a lot of lying, trying to implicate others and covering up being done, whilst witnesses and even DNA evidence points to the fact she hasn't been very truthful. As does the fact that according to forensic experts numerous people were involved in the murder.
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