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The winners however are often more by circumstance than skill.
That's a MUCH bigger problem among employees in unions than it is in the upper levels of corporate management or other highly paid professions. Teachers unions, as just one example, are horrendously notorious for preserving the jobs and ever-increasing salaries/benefits of grossly ineffective teachers.
That's a MUCH bigger problem among employees in unions than it is in the upper levels of corporate management or other highly paid professions. Teachers unions, as just one example, are horrendously notorious for preserving the jobs and ever-increasing salaries/benefits of grossly ineffective teachers.
Yeah, except it hardly ever happens and doesn't affect the economy nearly as much as CEOs being horribly overpaid, but let's keep scapegoating unions, right?
Yeah, except it hardly ever happens and doesn't affect the economy
You can't possibly be serious.
Have you seen how badly U.S. students compare to their international peers, and particularly even our top students? A poorly educated U.S. population most certainly does affect the economy. Why do you think we've transformed into a low-paying jobs service economy?
Last edited by InformedConsent; 02-02-2014 at 07:21 AM..
Reason: Clarity
Yeah, except it hardly ever happens and doesn't affect the economy nearly as much as CEOs being horribly overpaid, but let's keep scapegoating unions, right?
I was going to respond to this but I couldn't tell if it was a joke or if you were just being the example of what InformedConsent was saying in regards to a poorly educated society.
Have you seen how badly U.S. students compare to their international peers, and particularly even our top students? A poorly educated U.S. population most certainly does affect the economy. Why do you think we've transformed into a low-paying jobs service economy?
Because we removed tariffs on Chinese products which allowed American companies to move their manufacturing operations to China. What did you think the reason was, genius? Better education in communist China or more high skilled workers there? Lol
Wages are the way a society classifies people. A machine, robot or technical invention do not decide how to prioritize people's income. Its always the society that defines its values. In history different societies made different decisions:
Some valued their warriors most. Others valued priests and clergy. Few, their kings (considered gods) and aristocracy and many valued educated people and scientists.
Modern US on the other hand, decided in favor of entertainers, athletes, celebrities and rappers. Speculators are also highly viewed.
Because we removed tariffs on Chinese products which allowed American companies to move their manufacturing operations to China. What did you think the reason was, genius? Better education in communist China or more high skilled workers there?
When corporations can get the same dumbed-down skill set and labor cheaper elsewhere, what do you think happens?
Because we removed tariffs on Chinese products which allowed American companies to move their manufacturing operations to China. What did you think the reason was, genius? Better education in communist China or more high skilled workers there? Lol
The world caught up to us.
You have college graduates in what were once third world countries.
And they can do the same jobs for a fraction of US citizens.
What is so unique about Americans ? NOTHING.
One can hire a PhD in CS in India for $45K(USD) and have ZERO payroll taxes to Uncle Sam.
This is a few years old:
A US programmer costs a company $250K.
An Indian programmer costs a company $90K.
This is not just salary but total compensation.
One Amerian = two Chinese = three Indians
And Vietnam, Brazil, Singapore have even lower labor costs.
Its interesting to see in the wage discussion here how the perspective on work and income has changed.
Originally it was "He's a hard worker-thats why he makes so much!". Indicating that the path to success was hard work. When I was a kid it was "He/She is doing some hard work-thats why he/she makes so much!" A reference that really in my younger days being knowledgeable was the path to success. Learning a skill.
Hard work does not guarantee success. One can work hard with a lot of wasted motion, and no sense of direction. Success, and creating wealth, come from productive work, and planning ones life. Skills are important, but if they are not effectively employed, you could be spinning your wheels, getting nowhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Now I read these boards and the goalpost has changed it is "He/She makes so much because of the value they create". This of course is a self justification for extreme wealth inequality being good.
Not true. Pay has always been determined by the value of the labor, and the productivity of the laborer (I hate using these "factory worker" terms, because the same applies to all employer/employee relationships). This is nothing new. Any employer/employee relationship has always been a "value for value" contract. Nothing's changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
And really its the changing technology that drives wealth inequality. before the steam engine was created hard work was what it was all about, later the knowledge of our machines was what drove GDP. Now is a very undefinable "value".
Again, not true. Technology has nothing to do with it. The same principles apply today as in the past.
The idea of "income inequality" is nothing more than a made-up term intended to generate class envy. There will always be "income inequality," because people are different. They have different levels of skills, talent, education and knowledge, ambition, and other differences.
But, today, our biggest problem is lack of a growing economy, and that isn't a societal problem; it is an economic policy problem. Poor government economic polices are what are killing job creation and business expansion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Whats next? Thats kind of the interesting question. Because "value" can mean multiple things. Value for many is how much money is it worth? But we have a LOT of technological changes coming.
Anyways, do we as a society "value" our rich more? Not really. I look at the thread about schiff and can see he is probably in for a unpleasant surprise at some point. The vast majority of our society do not for a second believe he brings the value to society at the level he does. And when these opposed value driven viewpoints clash so much vs's whats happening somethings going to give. Maybe he will go Galt....and society will continue on, because we're dealing with reality, not fiction. But more likely laws will change to better reflect his actual value to society. Or maybe he and others like him will delay those laws so long that they die of old age first. More likely technological change will roll over them.
None of that makes any sense at all. What is it you are trying to say?
The principles of business remain the same as always.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
But for me...I'm still stuck in my growing up days where hard work had value, both in hours or muscle, AND in brain work. I don't sense that the "value" argument is such a good one, even as the definition changes over time.
Wasted motion may be hard work, but it has no value. "Value" is and always will be the argument, and its definition has not changed.
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