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its not the regulations per say, its how they are implemented. if you give the engineers time to figure the best way to meet or exceed regulations, as well as let them set up what ever solutions they come up with to be upgradeable in the future, then there is no problem. but when you tell them here are the regs you have to meet, and this is the little amount of time you have to come up with a solution, and by the way this is they way WE want you to solve the problem, then is when the problems start.
for instance, remember back in the early 70s when the clean air act was hitting the automakers? when teh EPA said here are your new emissions standards that cars have to meet for the next decade? and then they went on to tell the automakers that they had to use catalytic converters, and other emissions devices regardless of what solutions the engineers came up with. what happened was emissions were indeed cut, but efficiency went down, and reliability also went down and costs went up. had the EPA said here are teh standards, meet them, things would have been much different.
Efficiency standards for vehicles increased in the 70's and 80's but stayed dormant, it wasn't until the last few years that they increased the MPG standards to meaningful levels.
The solutions proposed for the Wyoming power plants have been around for quite some time, other power plants have already installed the technology years ago. These standards should have been planned well ahead of 2014.
What is it about transitioning from fossil fuels to renewable energy are you not understanding? Where did I say anything about not needing energy? That's um just foolish to even say that. It makes not a lick of sense.
you are the one that said the EPA wasnt doing enough, all i did was say that if we are going to turn them loose, then lets do it right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
Efficiency standards for vehicles increased in the 70's and 80's but stayed dormant, it wasn't until the last few years that they increased the MPG standards to meaningful levels.
The solutions proposed for the Wyoming power plants have been around for quite some time, other power plants have already installed the technology years ago. These standards should have been planned well ahead of 2014.
CAFE standards were not instituted until 1975, well after the early EPA requirements. they were increased in the 80s and in the 90s.
The EPA should not be running as an independent legislative body, all the EPA should do is offer advise and monitor, not make law, not write their own regulations, not set fines, penalties. Only the US Congress should write law, not bureaucrats at the EPA.
It's not just the EPA, it's the entire administrative state that has been created. Congress needs to reclaim their authority and stop allowing agencies like the EPA and HHS to essentially write their own laws thru federal regulations.
EPA Haze Plan Foists $1 Billion Costs on Missouri Basin Electric Co-op
EPA’s decision sets a stricter limit on nitrogen oxide, sulfur dioxide and particulate matter than what the state had proposed. The rule is expected to be finalized soon with compliance required by early 2019. Capital costs at the three-unit Laramie River Station near Wheatland, Wyo., alone are estimated at $750 million to meet the new federal restriction to reduce haze, according to Basin Electric Power Cooperative, which operates the power plant and is a part owner.
The regulation will require selective catalytic reduction technology (SCR) in addition to the over-fire air and low-NOx burners on all three units at the Laramie River, said Lyle Witham, the co-op’s manager of environmental services.
This is just one example of a power company being targeted by the Obama EPA, many others are being hit with new EPA regs costing our electric companies billions of dollars, and this is after they were already forced to comply with billions of dollars in upgrades from previous EPA regulations.
Obama: “So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.
Because I’m capping greenhouse gases, coal power plants, you know, natural gas, you name it — whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, they would have to, uh, retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers."
Coal power plants cause over 13,000 premature deaths every year, over 12,000 emergency room visits each year, over 20,000 heart attacks every year, over 200,000 asthma attacks a year, and more than $100 billion in annual health costs.
According to NASA our burning of fossil fuels could stop deep ocean currents, and then America will be covered with ice 365 days out of the year. We need a war on fossil fuels.
Coal power plants cause over 13,000 premature deaths every year, over 12,000 emergency room visits each year, over 20,000 heart attacks every year, over 200,000 asthma attacks a year, and more than $100 billion in annual health costs.
The prudent thing to do would be to allow us to move off fossil fuels and on to a replacement fuel and energy source, unfortunately we do not have one as yet. Obama is buringing our bridges without first establishing any alternate means. He's cutting off the nose of our nation to spite it's face.
Germany recently got 1/2 of its energy needs from solar power (and Germany is not a sunny place.)
I knew someone would have a link to this sort of data.
On the other hand...sierra club may be a bit biased.
Even if its off by a factor of 10 though, these regulations are needed.
I believe my source used "a 2010 study by the Clean Air Task Force. It estimated that air pollution from coal-fired power plants accounts for more than 13,000 premature deaths, 20,000 heart attacks, and 1.6 million lost workdays in the U.S. each year. The total monetary cost of these health impacts is over $100 billion annually.
I believe my source used "a 2010 study by the Clean Air Task Force. It estimated that air pollution from coal-fired power plants accounts for more than 13,000 premature deaths, 20,000 heart attacks, and 1.6 million lost workdays in the U.S. each year. The total monetary cost of these health impacts is over $100 billion annually.
We also have cleaner burning natural gas, (we have alternate means of power at this moment.)
Commercial electric power generation is a gigantic ship. It requires years to make a turn in direction, and our way of building relatively few huge power plants, rather than many small ones, makes any change longer than it does in other places.
The massive infrastructure needed to keep those titans running is as enormous, or more so, than the plants themselves. Rail lines, pipelines, and all the other means of delivering the fuel the plants burn all have their own requirements, maintenance, and regulations that have nothing directly to do with the power plants, except that the plants are the reason they exist.
There's no single solution for us. No one wants to live next to these big plants, but no one wants to live next to small ones, either. Shipping/trucking/pipelining fuel over hundreds of miles seems to be an enormously wasteful and inefficient way to generate power right from the first; it seems to me that the closer a power plant is to it's fuel source the more profitable it would be for all concerned, but we have plants out in the middle of nowhere because nowhere is the only place people won't object to their location.
I think that if we decide we prefer power generation to be as remote as possible, nuclear generation should be more seriously considered again. It's the only power source that does not require massive size as an integral part of the process, and is the only one that can be recycled easily for the same use. A breeder reactor creates as much fuel as it consumes.
Nuke plants will not work everywhere, but neither will oil, coal, gas, or hydro. I think each has it's own advantages, depending on many factors, and it's own potential dangers, some more obvious than others.
We are already using all the power we can make. There are many lasting consequences and dangers in power generation, no matter what is used as a power source. I think we need to start looking at how much we can cut back on power dependence, and begin to get serious about re-thinking our present aging structure of power generation and delivery.
We need the EPA. Who else will regulate these problems? The problems of generation affect all of us equally, just as our Interstates do, and we totally depend on both to keep this country running to it's capacity.
You mean like the banksters that Obama is playing kissie face with??
Can you post sources showing favors Obama is doing for these banksters ??
(I don't think you can.)
This source shows how fossil fuel corporations gave GW Bush campaign money, and it shows how GW Bush did favors for those corporations. Big Oil's Influence in Washington . NOW | PBS
These coal power plant owners give the republicans all kinds of money, and now all the republicans here are fighting to allow increased coal power plant pollution, this gives the coal power corporations who give republicans campaign money (increased corporate profits.)
Can you post sources showing democrats doing this?
Last edited by chad3; 02-05-2014 at 12:26 AM..
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