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View Poll Results: Can America be more like Australia with low unemployment, high minimum wage and low murder rate?
YES 20 29.41%
NO 48 70.59%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-05-2014, 10:14 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,101,577 times
Reputation: 9383

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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
If you lived in Australia you would likely be paid less for a professional position and more for a minimum wage job.
When I said that would happen here if we increase minimum wage, I was told I didnt know what I was talking about.. Shocking that I'm correct, isnt it?

 
Old 02-05-2014, 10:24 PM
 
804 posts, read 618,563 times
Reputation: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
When I said that would happen here if we increase minimum wage, I was told I didnt know what I was talking about.. Shocking that I'm correct, isnt it?
I still don't think you do. Simple raise in minimum wage, like it took place many times before, will not result in serious wage compression. Australia has a wage system much different from ours as many wages are predetermined by the government (national award) and not a much subject to negotiation as in he US.
 
Old 02-05-2014, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,510 posts, read 33,309,299 times
Reputation: 7623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tele-Cat View Post
Probably Drudge, Faux, WND or Breitbart.
I don't think he would use MSNBC (faux news).
 
Old 02-05-2014, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,480,794 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by artemis agrotera View Post
Medical bills underlie 60 percent of U.S. bankrupts: study | Reuters

"Medical bills are behind more than 60 percent of U.S. personal bankruptcies"

Not even close.
omg...did you post the debunked study???

that study has been DEBUNKED


the harvard study, first made in a 2005 Health Affairs article, is at variance with four decades of economic research, including a finding that even large medical bills have no impact on family living standards.
The paper by David Himmelstein, Elizabeth Warren, Deborah Thorne, and Steffie Woolhandler was published as a Health Affairs web exclusive on February 5, 2005. The authors are strong proponents of government run health care.

The data comes from 1,250 personal bankruptcy cases, assumed to be representative of the almost 1.5 million households that filed for bankruptcy in 2001. The data on each bankruptcy were abstracted from court records and supplemented with 931 telephone interviews. The paper's conclusions about illnesses in households were based on medical interviews conducted with 391 people. The paper does not specify how those people were selected. It does say that Himmelstein and Woolhandler (H & W), both MDs, coded the diagnoses given by debtors into the categories used for the analysis.

The classifications used to determine a medical bankruptcy were odd. Only 28.3 percent of the sample cited self-reported illness or injury as a cause of bankruptcy. However, H & W managed to almost double that figure (to 54.5 percent) by counting the following as "illnesses":

•1. A birth or addition of a new family member
•2. A death in a family
•3. A drug or alcohol addiction
•4. Uncontrolled gambling
•5. Loss of at least 2 weeks of work-related income due to illness or injury by anyone in the household
•6. Out-of-pocket medical bills of $1,000 in the two years before filing by anyone in the household
•7. Mortgaging a home to pay medical bills.
In a 2005 article in the Northwestern University Law Review, Prof. Todd J. Zywicki called the $1,000 threshold for contributing medical debt "indefensible." That's an understatement. By H & W criteria, a bankruptcy with $50,000 in student loans and $1,001 in unpaid medical bills would be classified as a "medical bankruptcy." Moreover, the average U.S. household had out-of-pocket expenses of $2,182 in 2001!

In a 2006 review (gated) of the H & W study results in Health Affairs, David Dranove and Michael L. Millenson:

•Recalculate the medical bankruptcy rate using the data given in the H & W paper. They conclude that just 17 percent of the H & W sample "had medical expenditure bankruptcies," although it cannot be stated "with any degree of certainty whether medical spending was the most important cause of bankruptcy."
•Explain that "four decades of studies have addressed the bankruptcy-medical spending connection" and that the results from those studies are much closer to their 17 percent estimate than to the 54.5 percent estimates of H & W.
•Cite a 2002 Fay, Hurst, and White American Economic Review study, which found no statistical link between bankruptcies and health problems.
•Cite a 1999 Domowitz and Sartain Journal of Finance study, which found that high medical debt raised the probability of bankruptcy for the tiny proportion of the population that had high medical debt, but that at the margin, credit cards were the largest single contribution to bankruptcy.
Moreover, Helen Levy in an Economic Research Initiative on the Uninsured working paper estimated the effect of being diagnosed with a serious new health condition, (cancer, diabetes, heart attack, chronic lung disease, or stroke) and found that household consumption "remains smooth" in the face of serious health shocks for both insured and uninsured households.


YET:
A study by the Department of Justice examined more than 5,000 bankruptcy cases between 2000 and 2002. It found that 54% of bankruptcies involve no medical debt, and more than 90% have medical debt of less than $5,000. Even among the minority of bankruptcies that report medical debt, only a few have enough to cause personal bankruptcy.
 
Old 02-05-2014, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,480,794 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by risotto11 View Post
Does the cost of living comparison also takes the cost of healthcare into consideration?
As far as I know, Australia has Universal Healthcare.
Despite claiming to have a ‘universal’ health care system, evidence is mounting that Australia is becoming
a country where only the affluent andlucky can be sure of getting the care they need. An international survey of adults with chronic conditions from eleven oeCD countries in 2011 found that 30 per cent of Australians went without some component of care due to cost issues in the past year. this was a higher
proportion than citizens of almost any other country.

A similar 2008 survey of chronically ill adults found that over a third (36 per cent) of Australians with chronic conditions reported problems with accessing health care due to cost. these figures are reflected by an Australian Bureau of statistics report from november 2012 which found that one in 15 sick Australians has put off seeing a doctor because it cost too much.


so much for 'universal healthcare'
 
Old 02-05-2014, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
3,674 posts, read 3,034,970 times
Reputation: 5466
Say what you will, I love Australia, and am very happy I moved here. It's COL is higher yes, but the higher wages, National Health Care system, safety, less car-centric society make up for it. Another plus for me is the climate, and more laid-back, we-look-after-each-other attitude that most Aussies that I meet have. Australia is a beautiful, safe, friendly country that knows how to take care of their people. So yeah, pro-americans can try to pick it apart, but there's really no comparison of which is better. Australia by a landslide.
 
Old 02-05-2014, 11:09 PM
 
804 posts, read 618,563 times
Reputation: 156
Lol. Despite your mounting evidence Australia does have an universal healthcare as opposed to the us where millions of people can't afford going to doctors or can't get insurance due to predicting conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
Despite claiming to have a ‘universal’ health care system, evidence is mounting that Australia is becoming
a country where only the affluent andlucky can be sure of getting the care they need. An international survey of adults with chronic conditions from eleven oeCD countries in 2011 found that 30 per cent of Australians went without some component of care due to cost issues in the past year. this was a higher
proportion than citizens of almost any other country.

A similar 2008 survey of chronically ill adults found that over a third (36 per cent) of Australians with chronic conditions reported problems with accessing health care due to cost. these figures are reflected by an Australian Bureau of statistics report from november 2012 which found that one in 15 sick Australians has put off seeing a doctor because it cost too much.


so much for 'universal healthcare'
 
Old 02-05-2014, 11:11 PM
 
804 posts, read 618,563 times
Reputation: 156
Thank you for your post. Hopefully some day America will learn how to take care of its own as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI View Post
Say what you will, I love Australia, and am very happy I moved here. It's COL is higher yes, but the higher wages, National Health Care system, safety, less car-centric society make up for it. Another plus for me is the climate, and more laid-back, we-look-after-each-other attitude that most Aussies that I meet have. Australia is a beautiful, safe, friendly country that knows how to take care of their people. So yeah, pro-americans can try to pick it apart, but there's really no comparison of which is better. Australia by a landslide.
 
Old 02-05-2014, 11:24 PM
 
14,767 posts, read 17,112,822 times
Reputation: 20658
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
Despite claiming to have a ‘universal’ health care system, evidence is mounting that Australia is becoming
a country where only the affluent andlucky can be sure of getting the care they need. An international survey of adults with chronic conditions from eleven oeCD countries in 2011 found that 30 per cent of Australians went without some component of care due to cost issues in the past year. this was a higher
proportion than citizens of almost any other country.

A similar 2008 survey of chronically ill adults found that over a third (36 per cent) of Australians with chronic conditions reported problems with accessing health care due to cost. these figures are reflected by an Australian Bureau of statistics report from november 2012 which found that one in 15 sick Australians has put off seeing a doctor because it cost too much.


so much for 'universal healthcare'
source?

Considering my use of the health system has been very affordable.

And that I dont know anyone who has ever become bankrupt from their health, other than they have been unable to work... ie, they did not fall into bankruptcy from the cost of their medical bills...

The cost to see a private GP is around $70. Post visit, you will receive around $30 back from medicare, therefore the out of pocket cost is approximately $40.

Of course there is the option to visit a bulk billing center, which I do for basic issues -- and I walk out paying a big fat $0....

There are longer waiting times in rural areas, which can force people to go to hospitals instead.... this is not a reflection of the 'system' as such - other than that there are not enough doctors in remote areas.

Many people put off going to the dentist, as it is quite expensive and this does not fall under medicare. Maybe this is what you are referring to.

And I agree... recently there has been pushes to stop the rebate for private health insurance for those who earn X amount. We have a hybrid system, actually -- where if you earn over X you should have private health insurance otherwise you will pay the medicare levy in your tax + a surcharge.

And recently, because the Medicare is under strain there has been discussion of increasing the medicare levy {of which I have no issue with}

So, 'universal healthcare' mixed with private health insurance.

Oh, and undeniably the best part of the public medical system in Australia is the PBS. Keeping drugs affordable.
 
Old 02-06-2014, 12:10 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,299,308 times
Reputation: 30999
We could certainly emulate Australia but it would mean getting used to the idea that government instituted policies arent necessarily a bad thing and can have positive results.
we'd also have to lose the guns if we wanted to reduce the death toll to Australian levels.
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