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Old 02-23-2014, 07:26 AM
 
1,735 posts, read 1,764,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West Coast Republican View Post
LMAO! Not even the same thing.

A baby is innocent and has not commited any crimes. A person who has committed crimes, particularly really bad ones like mass murder or rape or pedophilia, is deserving of death. The Bible does support The Death Penalty for certain crimes.

You know what the real hypocrisy here is? The liberals who are against the death penalty but totally okay with killing babies. Many of them are also Vegan, putting animals above babies. Many of them don't even believe in God. Talk about backwards thinking, it's like it's coming from another planet.
That's what my previous state did. They banned the death penalty but thankfully it is still allowed on a federal level.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:30 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,421 posts, read 20,243,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
Women have been terminating thier pregnacies even before there was on law on the book...even before there was "a book".

That is fact, one you may not like, but a fact none the less. Women have almost always had a right to choose until recently. Those are the facts of our world.
Just because a heinous act is commonly committed doesn't excuse it or make it right. It has always been wrong, whether you like it or not. That is a fact.

Muslims commit honor killings. They have been doing this for centuries. Should it be excused and legalized?
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:35 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
Slavery is against a person's free will. Roe v Wade was a affirmation of a woman's free will. A free will she has had for eons.
Killing an innocent child in the womb is against it's free will too. Do you think a child would elect to be killed? Have you ever seen a video of a fetus struggling in the womb in an attempt to protect itself, but unable to. I have seen such videos. They are horrific. You might not be so quick to sanction abortion if you saw this with your own eyes.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:02 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,421 posts, read 20,243,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
So all you want is the state to force a woman to term..OK Just wanted to be clear.
People like you love to twist and turn the issue with words like "force," and clichés that are chosen to obscure the fact that we are talking about taking a human life (the common lie and cliché that "it's just a blob of cells" comes to mind).

Let's not forget how one get's pregnant (and also, let's forget the phoney "rape" argument for the moment, which is such an insignificant number of cases). Where does personal responsibility for ones actions come in? "Choice" begins with the decision to engage in sex (fornication, if you will). Women know the risk, and so do their partners. There is simply no excuse for abortion, or a provision in the law that grants them the right to kill.

One of the original arguments for legalizing abortion was to "make it safe (although, it still isn't safe, especially for one party to it — the victim). But we still have "clinics" like that of Dr. Gosnell, doing unspeakably heinous things, even killing babies who survived his abortions. Roe v. Wade solved nothing; but, it did make abortion a mufti-million dollar business, and dramatically increase the numbers of abortions.

As for cases of rape, there are plenty of testimonies of children of rape who report that they are thankful that their mothers chose life.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:03 AM
 
25,792 posts, read 16,434,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtc08 View Post
If you believe that life is a gift from god, you cannot have the opinion that man can take that life at the same time.

A consistent view is god is the only one who gives life and god is the only one who can take it away.
There are laws of God and laws of man. If you are guilty of murder or other capital crimes you are subject to both.

If you are guilty of murder by abortion you are guilty only of the law of God and you will be tried for that. There is no escape.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:11 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,421 posts, read 20,243,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I would argue that in biblical times, the death penalty was needed to protect society but that times have changed. Today we have the means to put someone away for the rest of their life and make sure it's the rest of their life. Back then the resources needed to take care of the murderer were too much. Life in prison would have resulted in too many prisons and they didn't have super max facilities back then so breaking out was a little easier. Death was the only way to insure that the killer never killed again.
Your entitled to your point of view, but my argument would be at least threefold:
  1. A murderer does not deserve to escape with his/her life.
  2. God says they should be put to death, because murder is a crime against God himself.
  3. It costs society millions to keep people in prison for life, and they enjoy privileges (TV, Internet access, libraries, gymnasiums and other things that make prison life more comfortable). Why should they be allowed to live this way, in a sense, free, while their victim was robbed of life?
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:31 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,723,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
It has certainly happened before.

I think there really should be a higher burden of proof required by law than "beyond a reasonable doubt" in death penalty cases.
not for the initial conviction, that part has to be consistent. i do agree that a higher standard does needt o be applied if one is seeking the death penalty, but that happens in the penalty phase of trial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
There are laws of God and laws of man. If you are guilty of murder or other capital crimes you are subject to both.

If you are guilty of murder by abortion you are guilty only of the law of God and you will be tried for that. There is no escape.
and god told us to follow the laws of man unless they go against the laws of god.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:01 AM
 
18,341 posts, read 18,953,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post

and god told us to follow the laws of man unless they go against the laws of god.
and which "god" is that? freedom of religion and freedom from religion. your religious views are yours, CHOICE is just that up to the woman who is pregnant. that is THE law of the land. want to think like a third world man, move to the middle east where you do have control of the little woman.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:29 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,021,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
This is the gist of my problem with abortion. My right to anything stops where someone else's right to life begins. If the pregnancy is threatening my life, then I have the right to choose to survive but if I can carry to term and then get rid of the unwanted baby, the baby's right to life trumps my right to not have my body used as an incubator. Think about the consequences. For me the consequences are going through a pregnancy and giving birth and going through the recovery. I get out of this by aborting. The baby however loses its life. There is no contest here. In the tug of war between my convenience and someone else's life, the baby wins.

And since this thread also includes the death penalty, look at the consequences here. A murderer loses his life and society is protected from him ever committing another murder. There is a huge difference between killing an innocent baby for your own convenience and preventing a killer from ever killing again by taking his life. Now, I'm not arguing for the death penalty. I've already stated I'm against the death penalty because of the need to have someone kill the convicted killer who is sentenced to death and the enormous costs of death penalty cases. It's so much cheaper to just lock them up for life and no one has to have as their job description killing prisoners on death row. Unless I was in a life or death situation, I just could not take the life of another no matter how much they deserved to die. I think doing so would damage my soul so I would not wish that job on anyone, however, I don't think it's a contradiction to be anti abortion and pro the death penalty. My concerns are not for the killer here. They are for the person whose job it now becomes to kill the killer. That person must now take a life. Granted it's the life of a killer who has proven he has no right to live but a life none the less and it isn't being taken in self defense.
Sorry, I see this as very hypocritical. The person in prison isn't going to be a threat to you but yet you want to see him killed anyway. (in your hypothetical). How many on death row have ever been released to even have a small chance at ever harming anyone else again?

Would there be people alive today if we had went ahead and killed Charles Manson?
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:31 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,021,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
The State has the right, as punishment for the crime of murder, and as prescribed by God in scripture.
I don't speak for God. If you feel capable to, well.......
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