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Old 12-03-2007, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Your mind
2,935 posts, read 4,993,399 times
Reputation: 604

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But that role wasn't fulfilled very adequately back when private charity was solely responsible for aiding in the welfare of the poor... see the Industrial Revolution, Gilded Age, 1920's, etc. Even in the "good" economic times of that period. It's likely that neither of us is aware of a society with no social welfare spending where there hasn't been abject, Dickensian poverty and massive homeless populations.
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:01 PM
 
309 posts, read 363,957 times
Reputation: 111
What difference does a lot of this really make anyway?
Welfare sure isn't what it once was and is hardly enough to survive on for those who do have it.

There was a time when it was abused by many and people were able to carve out a living without needing to work at all. Those days ARE gone and now it is far better to have a job and stay off of welfare completely......if your lucky enough to FIND a job that PAYS much over minimum wage......or at least in the $12-15/hour range.

The really sad thing is.......there are just NOT the jobs out there that pay a fair and decent wage for a huge percentage of the population anymore. Not when so many manufacturing jobs are now overseas, unions are practically a thing of the past and the cost of living so high. You combine this with the fact that there is even stiff competition now for jobs flipping burgers when you have to compete for that with someone here illegally who can't even speak English. On top of that......far too many companies, even Temp. Agencies now REQUIRE a prospective employee to "pass" their CREDIT CHECK prior to hire along with a lengthy background check going back a lifetime.....just for a job making $8 or $9/hour.
I personally know people holding Bachelor's degrees and higher who are waiting tables and delivering pizza because they have yet to find employment in something they actually went to college for....for 4+ years.
It hardly seems worth going to college anymore when it averages 100-200k for your education.....that will likely require financial aid and student loans you won't be able to EVER pay off in your lifetime.....unless you are one of the lucky ones. Or you could go for that Law Degree.....yeah, America could ALWAYS use more lawyers.
What does this say about OUR economy?

And.....to make matters worse, there ARE far too many people out there WITH decent jobs/careers who just don't care or take their job seriously, possibly feel exempt from termination of their employment due to Affirmative Action crap and would sue for whatever discrimination they could if ever they were fired.......they are often the most inept and often uneducated people with a STABLE job who you truly have to wonder......HOW in the Hell.......got to where they ARE or WHO did they personally know to get that position they show such an ingrateful attitude to be fortunate to have in the first place?

Too many in society choose to seek the easiest way to move on up the ladder and all too often......any and all means actually work, no matter how dishonest, unprofessional, deceptive, immoral, unethical and ILLEGAL as well......(backstabbing their way to the top).......seems to be the American way more than ever and is more acceptable since many who do so....feel justified since it seems ok with our political leaders, maybe? I don't know, just one group they may look up to.

Yeah.....this sums it up to me and I don't care what the media or any government economist TRIES to say regarding the welfare of this nation, welfare recipients and America's current economic shape overall! IMO....America has been IN a recession for a while now and ANY rosy picture they paint stating otherwise IS bogus and purposely misleading!

WHAT you KNOW is of less importance everyday and you can be better rewarded for WHO you know and how well you play a game that is nothing more than an extension of the cliques of children on a playground at recess in the business world.......one that grows bigger each day as "that" world goes more and more global.
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:36 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,806,587 times
Reputation: 9283
$15 dollars per hour = 28800 per year with 2 people per household = 57600 = 40100 taxable income (assuming no other deductions or credits) = 5236 in taxes owed = 52364 take home pay = 4363 per month take home pay... (Now I am not including FICA, social security, medicare, etc. etc., anyone have any idea what the cost would be on a 52k take home?, At his point I will leave it at 52k)
Costs?

Home (Average home 211k on 5.69% <-- bankrate quote): $1222
Food: $300
Utilities: $65 electric, $45 water and trash; $110
Car + Insurance + Gas (monthly on a 23k on 6.8%): $454 + $73 + $50 = $577

Total Cost: $2209
Extra: $2154 (I recommend sticking most of it in retirement but thats your choice)

Average health care cost per month for a family (including kids): $226

Not bad for owning a 23k car with a 211k house... Yeah they could afford all that and pay for health insurance... Whether they pay it or not... well, I have no control over that... perhaps we should mandate a law that anyone without proof of health care insurance be garnished of their wages for 9.2%.... then they will have $1928 left to spend... problem solved..

Strangely enough the average household income is 48k, so after adjusting it for 48k instead of 52k, then we have a monthly of 4k which is only 363 less so, $1565 to spend after health care costs are paid...

Minimum wage is 5.85 an hour which is 11232 a year.... and a family of 2 makes 22464 with a tax of 498 so its 21966 and a monthly take home of $1830... well obviously you won't be owning a home and driving a 23k car with that kind of income... but you do come pretty close and you are short of $400 per month.

Apartment: $600
Food: $300
Utilities: $65 electric
Car: $6000/12 (Used car) = 500 + 40 (only liability) + 50

Total Cost: $1555
Extra: $275

Well obviously a couple earning a little under $6 will only be able to afford an apartment and car but have little left in savings. Now, those earning only that much obviously have very little skills, education, or has some kind of serious personality disorder. Even earning minimum wage, a person seem to be able to afford health care cost albeit they will not be able to afford any kind of luxury. They are likely to be enrolled into Medicaid anyways so they still have $275 left to save/spend per month...

Of course I didn't add in other "necessities" like cell phones, exotic travel trips, large presents, big screen tvs, living in a Manhattan apartment, etc. etc. All you have to do is manage your finance and you should be able to afford health care. I guess we'll leave big brother to tax everyone because people are unable to manage their finances...all this is average of course, so there are places with higher costs of living.. perhaps, when costs get too high to live in area, you should move (like many people are doing now)...I am sorry you can't live in NYC..

Last edited by evilnewbie; 12-04-2007 at 12:13 AM..
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:15 PM
 
Location: South Florida
5,016 posts, read 7,419,261 times
Reputation: 5446
Anyone on government assistance would be required to donate time doing XYZ.
It'd build self esteem, get stuff done, those on assistance could learn new skills, create community...
Nothing makes you feel better than being productive.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:34 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,917,807 times
Reputation: 7365
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
$15 dollars per hour = 28800 per year with 2 people per household = 57600 = 40100 taxable income (assuming no other deductions or credits) = 5236 in taxes owed = 52364 take home pay = 4363 per month take home pay... (Now I am not including FICA, social security, medicare, etc. etc., anyone have any idea what the cost would be on a 52k take home?, At his point I will leave it at 52k)
Costs?

Home (Average home 211k on 5.69% <-- bankrate quote): $1222
Food: $300
Utilities: $65 electric, $45 water and trash; $110
Car + Insurance + Gas (monthly on a 23k on 6.8%): $454 + $73 + $50 = $577

Total Cost: $2209
Extra: $2154 (I recommend sticking most of it in retirement but thats your choice)

Average health care cost per month for a family (including kids): $226

Not bad for owning a 23k car with a 211k house... Yeah they could afford all that and pay for health insurance... Whether they pay it or not... well, I have no control over that... perhaps we should mandate a law that anyone without proof of health care insurance be garnished of their wages for 9.2%.... then they will have $1928 left to spend... problem solved..

Strangely enough the average household income is 48k, so after adjusting it for 48k instead of 52k, then we have a monthly of 4k which is only 363 less so, $1565 to spend after health care costs are paid...

Minimum wage is 5.85 an hour which is 11232 a year.... and a family of 2 makes 22464 with a tax of 498 so its 21966 and a monthly take home of $1830... well obviously you won't be owning a home and driving a 23k car with that kind of income... but you do come pretty close and you are short of $400 per month.

Apartment: $600
Food: $300
Utilities: $65 electric
Car: $6000/12 (Used car) = 500 + 40 (only liability) + 50

Total Cost: $1555
Extra: $275

Well obviously a couple earning a little under $6 will only be able to afford an apartment and car but have little left in savings. Now, those earning only that much obviously have very little skills, education, or has some kind of serious personality disorder. Even earning minimum wage, a person seem to be able to afford health care cost albeit they will not be able to afford any kind of luxury. They are likely to be enrolled into Medicaid anyways so they still have $275 left to save/spend per month...

Of course I didn't add in other "necessities" like cell phones, exotic travel trips, large presents, big screen tvs, living in a Manhattan apartment, etc. etc. All you have to do is manage your finance and you should be able to afford health care. I guess we'll leave big brother to tax everyone because people are unable to manage their finances...all this is average of course, so there are places with higher costs of living.. perhaps, when costs get too high to live in area, you should move (like many people are doing now)...I am sorry you can't live in NYC..
Not bad until you figure state taxes on top of the fed's.....

Then these people you discribed aren't going very far other than from pay check to pay check. One accident, just one big thing wrong, or a divorce and these people are all done.

But it is the way it is. You do know the Govt fix for this is to TAX them more....
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