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Marginal tax rates are meaningless. Actual taxes paid is the only number that has meaning.
Exactly. That's why it's most helpful to look at actual EFFECTIVE federal income tax rates. Most people have no clue how low their own effective federal income tax rate is compared to higher income earners.
I am a 1%'er. This year including state taxes I paid 52% in income taxes.
And for that what do i get? Did I do moral good? No there are near-countless homeless, truly struggling people all over the US. Massive income inequality.
At least the "dirty socialists" in Western Europe get killed in taxes but take care of their poor.
I pay a fair amount in income taxes. I'd like a lower property tax bill(I think we spend way too much on the fire department, and the police department) and I'd like to see some changes to the state income tax, but those taxes are the result of the county and state where I live, but my federal taxes are ok.
There seems to be this fundamental misunderstanding of what the federal government does with the taxes it collects.
People talk about taxes in such an abstract manner that I scarcely understand the point.
There are so many tools that let people know exactly where our tax dollars go, and when the vast overwhelming majority of people are asked specifics about the federal budget, not some abstract question, most Americans by large percentages support the actual spending of the federal government.
I'd like to see us spend a lot less on the military, but the government somewhat uses military spending as stimulus spending, so I get it.
Beyond that we have to control healthcare costs, not spending, but the costs of healthcare. If we do those two things and spend more on early childhood education, I'd be even happier with the federal budget.
I pay a fair amount in income taxes. I'd like a lower property tax bill(I think we spend way too much on the fire department, and the police department) and I'd like to see some changes to the state income tax, but those taxes are the result of the county and tax where I live, but my federal taxes are ok.
There seems to be this fundamental misunderstanding of what the federal government does with the taxes it collects.
People talk about taxes in such an abstract manner that I scarcely understand the point.
There are so many tools that let people know exactly where our tax dollars go, and when the vast overwhelming majority of people are asked specifics about the federal budget, not some abstract question, most Americans by large percentages support the actual spending of the federal government.
I'd like to see us spend a lot less on the military, but the government somewhat uses military spending as stimulus spending, so I get it.
Beyond that we have to control healthcare costs, not spending, but the costs of healthcare. If we do those two things and spend more on early childhood education, I'd be even happier with the federal budget.
The polls on the programs are almost worthless particularly with Medicare, SS, and Defense spending. We have so many people on the receiving end when they are polled they oppose cuts. Republicans have morphed into the party of Medicare, SS, and Defense spending because thats where their base is. The social welfare spending is only one third of that and much of it goes to children but thats where they attack.
Paying taxes is not theft. What`s up with this conservative entitlement mentality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingblade
Lets see, I paid a whopping 300 bucks in federal taxes after my return but get 446 bucks a month in subsidies for Obamacare. No I do not think I pay too much and feel horrible that others are now responsible for most of my HC cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
i dont pay a dime, but should.. Sorry, I didnt create the tax code, I only follow it.
Did anyone notice that two of the biggest conservatives who post here dont pay any taxes and will be getting free or nearly free Health Care? On the other hand I will be paying $13,000 in income taxes this year. It seems that conservative are a bunch of ingrates when I am paying for their SS, Medicare, ACA, Defense and whatever. Maybe its just my imagination.
The polls on the programs are almost worthless particularly with Medicare, SS, and Defense spending. We have so many people on the receiving end when they are polled they oppose cuts. Republicans have morphed into the party of Medicare, SS, and Defense spending because thats where their base is. The social welfare spending is only one third of that and much of it goes to children but thats where they attack.
Actually the vast majority of Americans even republicans support spending money on the poor and don't want that spending cut.
But the specific point you raise undercuts the whole conservative argument and is why when conservatives say I am for a small government it is a huge joke to me. The most popular programs with conservatives are the largest federal government programs. You can't be for small government and support the largest by far federal government programs.
All this means is that conservatives long ago lost the argument about government spending when they speak about specific programs and so conservatives don't voice an opposition to specific programs on philosophical terms, they get into these weird discussions about the human psyche or human dignity or the soul, or who they believe is deserving or undeserving to receive government spending that essentially forces them to insult and demean millions of Americans in their critiques about government spending on specific programs.
So conservatives attack the poor, single moms, disabled, etc as having empty souls, being crooked and lazy, and immoral and therefore underserving of that government spending. To me it is a horrendous message to take to voters, but it is how conservatives talk about the federal budget when they talk about specific federal programs.
Savers always get whacked with taxes on interest.. the savers are punished and the spenders go broke and welfare , food stamps and free healthcare are their reward.
The problem with conservatives is they simply refuse to educate themselves on the specifics of defense spending. They are either lazy, stupid, or in the majority of cases, emotionally invested in an ideology and refuse to learn.
That is, you lay out for Republican voters the fact that Republicans in Congress regularly "purchase" a useless massive military industrial complex project. They strong-arm the generals into buying it; the military doesn't even want 9/10 things proposed and passed. It's generally some dumb theoretical idea that is totally useless and never amounts to anything. The Republican representatives get a piece of the action on the side via corporate donations. The tax payers fund the project. And the Republicans use this to claim they are "pro military." They present it like they are giving normal E-3's and sergeants a bonus or something.
This petrifies Republican voters. They refuse to believe. They want to live in a world where Democrats are limp-wristed girly-men who live to gut the military and watch it burn, while Republicans are masculine hero's.
You can even show them graphs detailing how enormous all these projects are and how they dwarf things like food stamps. It doesn't matter. They'll just invent a world where lazy poor people are ruining the country w/ food stamps and housing subsidies.
Last edited by allyvip; 03-12-2014 at 06:22 PM..
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