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Life is a Risk. Well put. And we all have our ways of dealing with it.
I joined this thread by stating that many things in life are considered to be Risky. We all have a threshold, what can be called acceptable risk. If something is beyond this threshold, we most likely will refrain from engaging in it ..
If I deem a swimming in a pool to be acceptable risk ... I will swim. If not, I wont.
If I think driving a car is acceptable risk .. I will ... if not, I wont.
But your RIGHT to own a gun increases my (and our collective) risk. Currently, I have no option but to accept this risk. Like the other poster said .... a concealed weapon could be present at a bank, at a Mc Donald's, my college ..... etc .. thereby increasing the risk to my LIFE ---> this is a clear violation of my RIGHTS!
It is a simple concept.
Prove that my right to own a firearm increases your risk level.
This is not a universal truth. If I dont know how to operate a gun properly, the chances of me causing more harm than good is very high.
But I agree with you overall. Having a gun at home may help you fight off an intruder. I do not disagree. Similarly, knowing martial arts puts you at a great advantage as well.
But, your having a gun does affect everyone around you (e.g. neighbors) ....therefore, the gun should be regulated and licensed appropriately.
A gun is a weapon. If my neighbors or the guy I meet at a restaurant is carrying one, I should know and have a say in it ... like I said, having a gun freely around me is beyond my threshold of acceptable risk.
Sounds like you're just going to have to deal with that on your own then.
This is not a universal truth. If I dont know how to operate a gun properly, the chances of me causing more harm than good is very high.
But I agree with you overall. Having a gun at home may help you fight off an intruder. I do not disagree. Similarly, knowing martial arts puts you at a great advantage as well.
But, your having a gun does affect everyone around you (e.g. neighbors) ....therefore, the gun should be regulated and licensed appropriately.
A gun is a weapon. If my neighbors or the guy I meet at a restaurant is carrying one, I should know and have a say in it ... like I said, having a gun freely around me is beyond my threshold of acceptable risk.
Are you aware that your neighbor might be seeing a shrink for anger issues? Maybe he is paranoid and thinks everyone else is an evil alien. I worry more about those protected by Doctor patient laws. How many loons that were being treated have gotten their hands on a deadly weapon?
Your risk isn't from the average gun owner. The risk comes from criminals and loons.
We drive everyday. That old man with coke bottle glasses driving at night, too proud to accept that he can't see where he is going.
That restaurant you love to eat at. What's going on in that kitchen? That walk in cooler?
Life is filled with risks. Punishing people who have done no wrong is never the answer.
This is not a universal truth. If I dont know how to operate a gun properly, the chances of me causing more harm than good is very high.
But I agree with you overall. Having a gun at home may help you fight off an intruder. I do not disagree. Similarly, knowing martial arts puts you at a great advantage as well.
But, your having a gun does affect everyone around you (e.g. neighbors) ....therefore, the gun should be regulated and licensed appropriately.
A gun is a weapon. If my neighbors or the guy I meet at a restaurant is carrying one, I should know and have a say in it ... like I said, having a gun freely around me is beyond my threshold of acceptable risk.
You have so much miss information it is laughable.
Me having a gun posses as much risk to my neighbors as me having a propane tank for my bbq or a gallon of gas for my mower.
You do not have a say in the rights of others to defend themselves, period.
And if you think martial arts is a self defense plan, well, you watch too much tv.
I cannot peacefully assemble or worship if there is a real threat of someone coming and shooting up the place. Like I said, the right to assemble and the right to worship was denied to the movie-goers in Aurora and the Sikhs in Wisconsin.
I'm not going to put much more effort into debating you. I feel like I'm just wasting my time. There's a fundamental understanding of what is and isn't a right that you don't seem to be able to grasp. Your arguments are also based on logic that is faulty on a colossal scale.
Millions of people congregate and worship every day. Tens of millions do it on Sundays. Hundreds of millions of people assemble for millions of reasons every day, all over the country. Based just on raw numbers, your argument falls flat. But to get specific, there is no "real threat of someone coming and shooting up the place." Can it happen? Sure - almost anything can happen, at any time, to anyone. Does it? Once in a very, very great while. You have a larger risk of someone driving a vehicle through the wall and into the building than you do of "someone coming and shooting up the place."
How many years did you have to backtrack through in order to find those two incidents? Two? Three? Five? They are statistical anomalies. These kinds of incidents don't happen every day. Or every week. Or every month. Or every year. Hundreds of millions of people with hundreds of millions of guns, with millions carrying them every day, and you're afraid to go to church because of two incidents that took place over years? If someone were to ask me, I'd have to say that I think you're terribly paranoid, and probably should seek professional help.
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Originally Posted by sandman249
So your simply saying that your right to own a gun has "nothing" to do with the other rights I listed is just plain ignorant.
No, it's just plain factual. Your paranoid mind finding some connection between these things is not proof of such connection. You're going to have to do a lot better than citing two criminal acts if you want to argue that point.
The facts are these: I carry concealed, and have for many years. In all that time, neither myself nor my guns have ever harmed anyone. I'm quite thankful that I've never been in a position that would necessitate my drawing my weapon, and I hope to never have to. But if that situation should ever present itself, I'll be very glad that I have my gun with me, because the alternative is death.
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Originally Posted by sandman249
This effective tool could be used in a manner that infringes upon the RIGHT TO LIFE of an innocent by stander.
"could be used"?
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Originally Posted by sandman249
If there is a 0.1% chance of someone firing a weapon in self dense and hitting an innocent person ...you cannot simply deny this RISK!
Hang on a second. You're shifting the goal posts. Don't do that.
Your arguments were that my POSSESSING a gun infringed on your rights, and that our RIGHT TO OWN a gun infringed on your rights. THAT was my main point of contention with your post.
As for your above comment, if you really want to go down that road, then we should be discussing the disarming of law enforcement, as they're terrible shooters and hit many more bystanders than civilian shooters in self defense situations. Is that where you're headed?
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Originally Posted by sandman249
SO YES. Your right to your gun comes at a price. Sometimes that price is one or more lives!
My right to own a gun came at a much heavier price than you think. There was this little conflict called "The Revolutionary War." Heard of it? A LOT of Americans died to protect my rights, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let some little internet twerp that doesn't know crap about rights, law or the Constitution interfere with the rights those men died to provide and protect.
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Originally Posted by sandman249
Sure you can buy a car in cash and keep it in your garage and never drive it - it is legal. I dont know if doing do-nuts on your front lawn is "completely legal" ... but I get your overall point. You can drive it in and out of your garage all day without a permit or license ... legally.
So, what's your point?
What's my point? Seriously? You tell me that you "get [my] overall point," and then you ask me what it is? Really?
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Originally Posted by sandman249
Clearly, the car will never come into contact with anyone on the street. You pose no direct threat to anyone with your car. So ......
But it COULD!That's the foundation of your ENTIRE argument - what "COULD" happen. Since it COULD happen, surely we must not allow such dangerous activities as owning a motor vehicle without special permission and tests, right?
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Originally Posted by sandman249
A car is not a weapon. So why are you trying to equate the two?
It's not? Explain that to all the people that have been killed with one. Explain that to the district attorneys that charge people with "assault with a deadly weapon" when they try and run somebody over.
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Originally Posted by sandman249
There is a huge black market for guns.
What you want to do would inevitably result in an INCREASE in that black market.
Look. If you can't keep up with the debate, including your own poorly thought out arguments, perhaps you shouldn't try. Like I said, I'm not going to put much more effort into debating you, so if you're just going to continue shifting goal posts and regurgitating the same tired, old and faulty arguments, don't bother. You won't get a response.
But your RIGHT to own a gun increases my (and our collective) risk.
No, it doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman249
Like the other poster said .... a concealed weapon could be present at a bank, at a Mc Donald's, my college ..... etc .. thereby increasing the risk to my LIFE ---> this is a clear violation of my RIGHTS!
It is a simple concept.
You're wrong. Period. And if any of those scary concealed carriers ever happens to save your life, I'll bet that you change your tune about guns real quick.
I think I see your destination with all the yammering you've been doing. For you, it seems that it's all about "acceptable risk," and in your mind, where guns are concerned, there is no "acceptable" level of risk. Got it.
So when are you going to start your petition to disarm law enforcement? If you're going to demand that all guns be universally banned, you should start with them. After all, they're terrible shooters.
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