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its even more nieve to believe that government would have given you that chemotherapy regime or saved indivdiuals from bankruptcy who get sick.
True, who needs a government. Well, you would be the first one to raise holy hell if your business ventures went south because some organized group of crooks put a gun to your head and demanded weekly payments or else!. The same damn thing applies to those who paid insurance premiums for years then given the boot in one form or another when the chips are down. That is the system we have in delivering healthcare in this country, huge cracks built in over the years so the middle class sick can and do fall into if the situation calls for it. If it aint the government fixing these issues, then who, Al Capone?
I was always liberal and the recession (and then my subsequent cancer diagnosis) made me far more liberal. Nothing like talking to a few conservatives while you're a young person on an entry level income struggling with a stage IV cancer diagnosis to push you over the liberal edge. There was no government assistance for me and little charity aid available, despite being a few months out of college and not making much money in a high cost of living area.
It has also made me a huge supporter of Obamacare - though I think the ACA doesn't go far enough. If I can get a stage IV cancer diagnosis at 23 with no family history and a fairly healthy lifestyle and medical history, then I can't really wrap my brain around why someone wouldn't want health insurance. I was denied insurance a few months before my diagnosis for fairly minor pre-existing conditions (like psychological counseling following a rape) and my treatment and aftercare for the past 3 years is into the half million dollar range. You're only healthy until you're not.
You weren't born with the right to health care, because no health care provider was born into slavery. As sympathetic as I am for your troubles with cancer, it still does not confer an obligation on the health care industry nor on your neighbor that you fell ill to the plague of the last century. It is as unfortunate as an infinite number of other really tragic, unfortunate things in the natural world, but tragic and unfortunate still does not obligate your neighbor.
I suspect we are also getting a portion of the entire story where preexisting conditions are concerned, as I also suspect you only tell yourself a portion of the story to make sure you do not suffer cognitive dissonance in addition to your other health problems.
But if your cancer has convinced you to be more liberal, then reading your post where you express the belief that your individual problem is the responsibility/obligation of the entire nation has made me even more libertarian. That you think the entire nation is your indentured servant speaks to a nation of people who see their neighbor as food, not people.
True, who needs a government. Well, you would be the first one to raise holy hell if your business ventures went south because some organized group of crooks put a gun to your head and demanded weekly payments or else!. The same damn thing applies to those who paid insurance premiums for years then given the boot in one form or another when the chips are down. That is the system we have in delivering healthcare in this country, huge cracks built in over the years so the middle class sick can and do fall into if the situation calls for it. If it aint the government fixing these issues, then who, Al Capone?
Who is suggesting we abolish government? Really? Why the hell is it an all or nothing with you kooks?
Do you think Government pays for whatever procedure people want without doing the same cost analysis the poster was discussing? Government contracts out these services to the VERY SAME private industry he was complaining about. Blue Cross for examples runs medicaid for PA...
True, who needs a government. Well, you would be the first one to raise holy hell if your business ventures went south because some organized group of crooks put a gun to your head and demanded weekly payments or else!
Nice appeal to ridicule/sympathy, but for the last 50 years, the organized crime thug who demands protection money is the government itself. No bigger threat to your liberty and safety has ever existed than the US government, and certainly moreso now than at any other time in history, maybe excepting the heights of either FDR or Wilson's petty tyrannies.
I am from Ohio, a "purple" state. But I am from a solidly blue democratic city and county. That said, most of the people I knew were very middle of the road politically in my hometown. The main reason why they were blue was because of strong union membership in our area and people wanting to ensure investment into local organizations and institutions for the common good of the area (zoos, libraries, parks, etc.).
I have always been a moderate. I do have some liberal and some conservative views but in general, I can appreciate the opinions of others and not let them bother me too much if they differ from my own.
In regards to the recession, as stated my political beliefs have not changed. I voted for Obama both times and I do think he is doing a decent job in regards to the economy. The only difference I would have liked was if there was another stimulus. The right likes to get all upset about Obama's spending and the stimulus funds expended in 2009, but that is needed on a grander scale IMO. Just like a business, a country should keep investing in itself. I feel we would be much further ahead if another stimulus had been passed in 2011 or 2012 to get inject our businesses with more money and to get people employed quicker, even if it was a temporary job. Those who lost jobs in 2007-2009 but who wanted to work, would have had access to more jobs as a result of another stimulus and that would make them more marketable as well in the permanent job search.
And FWIW, me and my family are much better today than we were in 2008. I don't put our success though on the government, but the ARRA stimulus especially came into play as I was given the opportunity to do a job in the housing industry related to contract management and administration of contracts under ARRA. I had never worked in housing prior to that and have enjoyed my time since then and have gotten....3 promotions since then and a higher paying, more flexible position at another company since being given that opportunity. We also took advantage of the housing downturn and I invested some of our income into very cheap houses that produce us rental income (we bought 3 homes for less than $5K each) along with building more of a portfolio for wealth in the future for our family. I have also started a business within the past few years and am doing well in that endeavor along with looking to start another business.
You weren't born with the right to health care, because no health care provider was born into slavery. As sympathetic as I am for your troubles with cancer, it still does not confer an obligation on the health care industry nor on your neighbor that you fell ill to the plague of the last century. It is as unfortunate as an infinite number of other really tragic, unfortunate things in the natural world, but tragic and unfortunate still does not obligate your neighbor.
I suspect we are also getting a portion of the entire story where preexisting conditions are concerned, as I also suspect you only tell yourself a portion of the story to make sure you do not suffer cognitive dissonance in addition to your other health problems.
But if your cancer has convinced you to be more liberal, then reading your post where you express the belief that your individual problem is the responsibility/obligation of the entire nation has made me even more libertarian. That you think the entire nation is your indentured servant speaks to a nation of people who see their neighbor as food, not people.
You have a lot of nerve spouting this bullcrap. Every one has the right to health care.
You need to understand the definition of slavery. Slavery is force. You consented to contributing to American society by being a citizen here. You will pay your taxes to pay for our roads, schools, water / food / drug inspections, air quality, military, HEALTH CARE, and numerous other benefits U.S. citizens enjoy. If you don't like it, pack your things and get out.
Also, don't have the nerve to say you are sympathetic but you don't want to contribute a dime to help any of your neighbors.
You weren't born with the right to health care, because no health care provider was born into slavery. As sympathetic as I am for your troubles with cancer, it still does not confer an obligation on the health care industry nor on your neighbor that you fell ill to the plague of the last century. It is as unfortunate as an infinite number of other really tragic, unfortunate things in the natural world, but tragic and unfortunate still does not obligate your neighbor.
I suspect we are also getting a portion of the entire story where preexisting conditions are concerned, as I also suspect you only tell yourself a portion of the story to make sure you do not suffer cognitive dissonance in addition to your other health problems.
But if your cancer has convinced you to be more liberal, then reading your post where you express the belief that your individual problem is the responsibility/obligation of the entire nation has made me even more libertarian. That you think the entire nation is your indentured servant speaks to a nation of people who see their neighbor as food, not people.
In regards to the bold above, I actually do feel that every American should have free healthcare.
As stated in my post above, a country should invest in its future - doing more to provide for adequate health prospects of its citizens is the ultimate investment IMO and universal healthcare is my biggest "liberal" political stance.
Like charolastra, I don't think the ACA does enough and I think we will see that it doesn't and that a universal option will eventually come into play.
That said over the course of this recession, I have become fascinated with "libertarians" especially due to me reading on these forums. Though many ideas that are somewhat libertarian seem logical, I have concluded via research that it is just communism in reverse. It depends too much on the logic of people and people by nature are very illogical and self serving. As hard as it is for many people to accept, our government is sorely needed to protect the liberties of all people in this country in as fair as a manner as possible. We have an excellent system of checks and balances in America and we are lucky in that regard. There are faults in our system as well (due to being led by people - as stated people by nature are illogical and self-serving in many aspects) but I would rather keep what we have than give everything up and hope for self regulation.
Also, there is not way to safely dismantle our current form of government without diving into complete disaster economically the way that many of the libertarian ilk would like to see take place. Americans (and people in general, since we are self-serving) aren't going to want to suffer the consequences and hope for a better future after libertarianism is firmly in place.
It is interesting to note as well that the poster you responded to above informed you of her background and cancer survival. She was very young when diagnosed, and as stated, I do feel that it is important for us as a country to take care of the health of our populace. You may see it as you being an indentured servant (and lol at that one!) but it really is just ensuring the continued growth and survival of our nation.
Also in regards to pre-existing conditions - I also could not get insurance on the open market when I was a young adult - between 24-26. I had asthma as a child due to my parents smoking. It magically when away when they stopped smoking when I was 16 but that is on my record. I also had a C-section when I was 22 when my son was born, so those 2 things precluded me from being able to get health insurance. I knew many women who had C-sections who were denied health insurance even those who had a tubal ligation so they could have no more children. I also knew someone who had allergies - hay fever type who was denied.
It is almost same as saying people are not born with right to live, because health care can be the difference between life and death.
ACA isnt about health care its about insurance..
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