It Is Time For Basic Income (claims, million, employees, working)

[Opin_Yunated]

Originally Posted by pknopp

But then that minimum wage buys little to nothing.

Currency expansion is only one variable out of four in the money-velocity equation. Money printing = inflation is not a true statement, as there are other variables involved. That's why QE hasn't been inflationary, really.

Anyway, back to the topic. I just can't stand the inaccuracy of the "government only gets what the people give it." It is 100% untrue. The buck starts with the government and is put into the private sector, not the other way around. It is offensive to the conservative worldview, but reality usually is.

[KUchief25]

It appears the liberals have come up with another term for "handout". Not a shock.

[pknopp]

Originally Posted by ErikBEggs

Currency expansion is only one variable out of four in the money-velocity equation. Money printing = inflation is not a true statement, as there are other variables involved. That's why QE hasn't been inflationary, really.

Really it has been and is becoming increasingly more so every day.

Anyway, back to the topic. I just can't stand the inaccuracy of the "government only gets what the people give it." It is 100% untrue. The buck starts with the government and is put into the private sector, not the other way around. It is offensive to the conservative worldview, but reality usually is.

Something has to be there to back it or it becomes worthless.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by mkpunk

Nope, no industry can be nationwide anymore. This is not the 1800's where everyone could farm with a few shop keeps and printers here and there.

First mistake, you live in a federation, not a nation.

Second, you can operate an industry locally, State-wide, regionally, federation-wide or globally.

Originally Posted by mkpunk

Show me proof on this one other than the "go to college" line.

Booom....

Research and development expenditure (% of GDP) | Data | Table

....there you go.

You wanted proof....there it is, and it's even from the Left-Wing World Bank, so you can't scream "bias."

Finland and Denmark have higher GDP % of R&D than the US, and the Israelis have doubled the US.

That is really sad, when you consider that resource and statistical population limitations hinder R&D growth in all 3 of those States.

Originally Posted by mkpunk

This you actually showed work on.

It's not my fault you don't know how to count from Zero to 5.

Originally Posted by mkpunk

However it isn't the only cost driver at play. We also have to bring up the overhead that administration increases. Think about it when you have say three or four colleges/schools within an university, you bring in much more staff income (often are through salary rather than wage) so it falls under admin costs. Add in regents board pay, upgrades to integrate blackboard programs and you increase costs.

Um, that's caused by Interest Inflation stemming from interference by the pseudo-federal government in higher education.

Increases in overhead and administration are due to increases in student population.....increases in student population are due to interference from the pseudo-federal government in higher education.

Originally Posted by mkpunk

Don't get me wrong, loans are a major cost driver but not the only one.

Right...the other is the Left-Wing dumbing-down and idiotic diversity nonsense.

What's the point of having ACT/SAT if you're going to allow students with an SAT score of 42 on campus?

Hell, you don't even have to be friggin' human to get enrolled.

Inanimate Object: Hello, I'm a half-ton block of Cretaceous Greenhorn Limestone and I have a government-backed tax-payer funded Student Loan.

Admissions Officer: Okay, just have your legal guardian fill out these forms.

Originally Posted by mkpunk

As for the expensive degrees, sadly it is a necessary evil. One cannot breakthrough without it. Can you get the government out of it, I don't know if and how you can do that and the effects of removing the government from the equation.

That was brought to you by the Left-Wing (and ambulance chasing lawyers)....If your business does not "look like" Amerika, then we will have the Justice Department and Equal Opportunity Commission sue and harass you forever.

For those who do not understand.....

Police standards lowered, not enough blacks passed.

That creates an hostile environment for employers. And then there's the minimum wage from the illegal-national-government-pretending-to-be-a-federal-government.

What do you think the response of any sane person would be? Raise the bar.

Originally Posted by mkpunk

I am replying to this because this is a fallacy with moving. Just because one should move doesn't mean they can. For example, a person may not be able to move to another state while on unemployment.

You can still job search federally.

If you don't have internet, no problemo.....just go to your local library, or to your State job services, or to any number of other private or public job services, and you can use their internet --- for free ---to search for jobs all over this wonderful federation.

That's I why I pay taxes --- so you can have "free" internet to find jobs.

Originally Posted by mkpunk

From there, to move, one would need a friend, family member or someone that they never met off Craigslist to move in with because they would likely not be able to rent an apartment without a pay-stub. Otherwise, one would have to to have the job in the bag to actually be able to move. Otherwise the only housing you'll get are hostels which in the long-run can get pricey.

Excuses, excuses and more excuses.

What about the 6 Degree thing? Everyone is connected, right?

Compare the following:

I, uh, um, you know, graduated in 2010, but, uh, I never, um, you know, I couldn't find a job anywhere so I couldn't work in my degree field, but uh, I have, uh, um, you know, been working part-time at Taco John's for the last, uh, 6 years or so, and uh, I know how to make a Taco Bel Grande really good, and I sort of remember, you know, uh, some of the stuff that was taught in class.

versus

I graduated in 2010, then went to Germany looking for work, but ended up at a small private company in Orly, France working in my degree field. After 3 years, I took a position at Proctor & Gamble's manufacturing facility in Timisoara, Romania where I reported directly to the Comptroller.

Which one of those will get hired?

Originally Posted by mkpunk

Raising a kid (particularly younger) does cost more due to diapers,...

Use cloth diapers. You can wash and reuse them, instead of throwing away thousands of dollars.

Originally Posted by mkpunk

.... doctor's appointments, tendency to get sick, ect.

That fails, too.

You spend money needlessly on healthcare.

Part of that is due to the lost Art of Motherhood....where women do not know how to care for children, or are too selfish and self-absorbed to spend the time.

Let me explain how freaking easy this is: child has a sore throat; does child have temperature? No -- send to school; yes --- keep at home and monitor closely; if temperature persists more than 3 days, or rises to 102°F -- whichever comes first -- go to the doctor; if white spots develop on the back of the throat (strep throat) go to the doctor.

See? It's not rocket-science...it ain't even dentistry....it's just parenting.

If you're going to run to the Emergency Room every time your kid farts, it's going to get real expensive, real fast.

Originally Posted by mkpunk

You are not, I am just mentioning that the costs are historically higher (percentage wise) than in the past. Housing is only part of it. Prices of food alone are projected another 3% increase over the year with higher prices on beef due to a smaller supply of cattle.

It's called the Laws of Economics.

Did you seriously think prices would decrease?

And you're whining over a measly 3%?

Ohmigod....what are you going to do 11 years from now when Real Inflation is running 35%-45% annually?

And then add Demand-pull Inflation and/or Cost-push Inflation on top of the Real Inflation?

Cow tongues. Eat them. You can eat ox tails, beef liver, beef tripe, pork brains, pork liver, hog maws, chitlins, chicken livers, chicken gizzards, chicken hearts, turkey livers, turkey gizzards or turkey hearts.

Get some pig parts, boil them, throw in some gelatin, spices and you got yourself some souse (hot if you add peppers). Buy cheaper cuts of meat and learn how to prepare them, or make them into sausages.

Don't like it? Well, that's just a damn shame.

Go meatless several times a week. Eat beans. Eggs. Cheeses.

Originally Posted by mkpunk

How is that any different from blaming the left wing on everything wrong with education?

And why shouldn't the Left-Wing be blamed?

I'm an Ultra-Conservative, so Education through secondary level is local control --- community control -- not over-reaching government control, but total government control is Left-Wing ideology.

Second, I'm a Constitutionalist. The Department of Education is a clear violation of the US Constitution, specifically the 9th and 10th Amendments. The federal government has no legal right or authority to make any laws about Education, with the single exception being the District of Columbia which is under control of Congress.

Third, it is the Left-Wing that shifted the role and function of schools from Education to the administration and provision of Social Services ---- you can either educate, or you can provide social services, but you cannot do both, and most certainly cannot do both effectively.

Fourth, unions -- a tool of the Left-Wing -- have also damaged Education.

Then there's the Left-Wing assault on curriculum, removing essential math and sciences, and replacing those classes with indoctrination nonsense; and then the political correctness stupidity, and I can go on and on.


From the word "go" -- it will be 20 years before the US is in a position to enter the 5th Level Economy. That means if tomorrow Obama abolishes the Department of Education and rescinds all of the illegal laws and regulations, returning schools to local control, it will 2034 before you are ready.

If you do not enter the 5th Level Economy, then you will stagnate at the 4th Level Economy, and you will ultimately lose it, just as you have lost much of your 1st and 2nd Level Economies.

Your 3rd Level Economy is next to be decimated....

Mircea

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by greywar

People do things in their short term self interest even if its not in their interest in the long term. Your statement is a perfect example of wishful thinking.

No, you're the one hallucinating.

People make mistakes.....it's what they do.

People also learn from mistakes....but not if there are no consequences.

What people learn is equivalent to the level of their suffering --- no suffering, no learning.

The Left-Wing has effectively attempted to eliminating all negative consequences, and even that might be remotely tolerable, except that the Left-Wing positively reinforces the behavior(s) that led to the negative consequences in the first place.

Originally Posted by phlinak

On the contrary, unemployment taxes are deducted from the paychecks of workers in Alaska, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Um, excuse me, but there are two types of unemployment insurance, one operated by the State -- SUTA, and one by the pseudo-federal government -- FUTA.

Originally Posted by greywar

Sigh. Its not one side thats ignorant of economics.

That's rich coming from the person who has no clue why a 1st Phase Zero Level Economy has 0% unemployment and what causes unemployment.

Originally Posted by greywar

some on the right have a view of economics as being the exact same as their household. Which is completely ignorant.

It is a valid comparison. Comparing a household to any level of government is valid. When you understand Economics, you'll understand why.

Originally Posted by phlinak

I wouldn't dismiss the program so cavalierly. For many who need it, it's a very necessary lifeline that is helping them to stay above water.

Gosh...it's too bad you don't purchase your own unemployment insurance, which would be cheaper and then you wouldn't have to live in fear of government passing or not passing legislation to extend your benefits, and best of all.....you would get to choose a benefit plan that would be meet your needs, and even change your benefit plan should your needs change...

....but hey....the Free Market is stupid.

Originally Posted by pknopp

Bush increased money for education.....one thing for certain, wild rants based upon extreme partisan politics won't fix anything.

And Bush was wrong. Bush should have cut spending on Education and moved to abolish the Department of Education, which is an unnecessary redundant useless bureaucracy that does nothing.

Originally Posted by phlinak

There was never a 50 year war on poverty because every time we get a Republican in the White House, money that should be spent for education, fighting poverty, or other worthy causes gets diverted to more "meaningful" causes like cutting taxes for the rich while launching an unnecessary war of aggression and increasing spending on weapons for future wars.

It was the members of the Young People's Socialist League who merged with the Social Democrats who gave you LBJ's Grotesque Society....and then later when they realized they had made a very costly colossal mistake, they became Neo-Conservatives....that was around 1975.

You cannot objectively define "poverty" in no uncertain terms.

No amount of money will ever change the outcome...

Mircea

[mkpunk]

Mircea's post in three words.

Originally Posted by Mircea

I'm an Ultra-Conservative

I am not taking any of your anti-left ideas seriously because you are biased to believe that if anything they just work in the test-tube and not practical and to make it worse you make ad hominem attacks along with extreme strawman examples to support your claim.

[Storm Eagle]

Originally Posted by Harrier

OP - who is going to pay for this "basic income"?

Eliminate welfare, unemployment, food stamps and use the money that was going into those programs.

[ChestRockwell]

Originally Posted by ErikBEggs

Currency expansion is only one variable out of four in the money-velocity equation. Money printing = inflation is not a true statement, as there are other variables involved. That's why QE hasn't been inflationary, really.

Anyway, back to the topic. I just can't stand the inaccuracy of the "government only gets what the people give it." It is 100% untrue. The buck starts with the government and is put into the private sector, not the other way around. It is offensive to the conservative worldview, but reality usually is.

Originally Posted by pknopp

Something has to be there to back it or it becomes worthless.

Oh, it's backed by something....it's backed by war. That's the only reason why everybody is invested in it and there is still faith with runaway money printing...because we are the goons of the globe and happily do everyones bidding.

Funny how Liberals will advocate war as the main export of this country....were they doing so 6 years ago? I guess it's ok as long as they get a stipend.

Hey, the bottom line really DOES matter after all eh?

[pknopp]

Originally Posted by matt1984

Eliminate welfare, unemployment, food stamps and use the money that was going into those programs.

So we split up what is going to single mothers or struggling families with the kids from families in the upper income brackets so they will have a little more while at college for beer and video games?

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey

Someone, but the entire population can't do that.

Originally Posted by greywar

Me. And those like me. But hey guess what? We are the minority. We're a small segment of those currently employed.

Automation is essentially programing a machine to use the brute force, to complete a simple, repetitive template where attention to detail is not an issue. It's only capable of replacing the menial, repetitive jobs where human improvisation and judgment are not required. Computers and mechanical machines don't have the ability to adapt to limitless variables that humans possess.

Sorting berries with a puff of air at a winery, filling plastic bottles with juice and screwing on the cap, sorting packages on a conveyor belt, etc... These are not career jobs that will displace well paying jobs in the workforce population, anymore then it was for the farm machinery that replaced hordes of sweating, bone tired farm workers with hoes and rakes.

Automation sounds great, but it's not something the free market will blindly accept at every turn. When it comes to quality workmanship, or interfacing with a real person, is something the market will demand.

Computer automated telephone service sounded great, but how many commercials have you seen that are making fun of pushing buttons on your phone for the next robotic response option? How many times do you see the words "hand crafted" used to convey quality and attention to detail? Automation will never replace human care givers at a daycare center for toddlers, nor the lawn care specialist trimming hedges and pruning rose bushes.

BTW, we will hasten more automation with economic incentives, if we raise all wages. We'd end up pricing teenagers , and adults out of the market, for seeking unskilled, part-time work.